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Author Topic: Dwarf Fortress 0.40.15 Released  (Read 18240 times)

Urist_McArathos

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.40.15 Released
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2014, 10:15:17 am »

You don't know what immigration is or how stress works, do you? They're probably fleeing an assault, hence the abandoned hillocks and towns here and there on the maps. Also, let's say your mother died. Violently. Right in front of you. You'll be sad, right? Now let's say your father faced an even worse fate, and you were directly beside him. But since your mother died, this doesn't affect you at all.

That's all well and good, but this bug is related to the fact dwarves will react with that much melodrama when their cousin has been away for six months, otherwise known as "not living with you as a roommate anymore".  It'd be working as intended if the only time it was that bad was when a recently-orphaned dwarf refugee tried to move on, but it's a bit more problematic than that  :)
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Grax

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.40.15 Released
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2014, 10:58:25 am »

   (*) Stopped zombies from interrupting your sleep to ask if they can help you with something

That was so cute.
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TomiTapio

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.40.15 Released
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2014, 01:03:10 pm »

I cannot comprehend the greatness that is Toady.
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==OldGenesis mod== by Deon & TomiTapio, 0.44.12f August, vanillalike but more races and workshops. Blood spatter stress; whiskey truly cheers you.
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mnjiman

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.40.15 Released
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2014, 02:38:57 pm »

So this is a new challenge mode then? Awesome :O
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I was thinking more along the lines of this legendary champion, all clad in dented and dinged up steel plate, his blood-drenched axe slung over his back, a notch in the handle for every enemy that saw the swing of that blade as the last sight they ever saw, a battered shield strapped over his arm... and a fluffy, pink stuffed hippo hidden discretely in his breastplate.

Toady One

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.40.15 Released
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2014, 02:57:39 pm »

Incidentally, the sadness from missing relatives is 100% goblin snatcher victims.  I'm going to moderate the amounts for next time, but the wording doesn't reflect the actual horrific circumstances.
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Harken

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.40.15 Released
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2014, 04:30:54 pm »

Thanks Toadster, you rock buddy.
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mnjiman

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.40.15 Released
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2014, 04:45:24 pm »

Incidentally, the sadness from missing relatives is 100% goblin snatcher victims.  I'm going to moderate the amounts for next time, but the wording doesn't reflect the actual horrific circumstances.

Is it possible to get a super quick release out to fix this? Or is there a way I can fix it on my end with a quick adjustment. IDK if this is a game breaker, some people are stating it is.
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I was thinking more along the lines of this legendary champion, all clad in dented and dinged up steel plate, his blood-drenched axe slung over his back, a notch in the handle for every enemy that saw the swing of that blade as the last sight they ever saw, a battered shield strapped over his arm... and a fluffy, pink stuffed hippo hidden discretely in his breastplate.

Toady One

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.40.15 Released
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2014, 04:48:20 pm »

There are no super quick releases, and I'm not going to burn a day on it -- next release'll be in six days, probably.
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mnjiman

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.40.15 Released
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2014, 04:51:00 pm »

There are no super quick releases, and I'm not going to burn a day on it -- next release'll be in six days, probably.

Kk, guess I will attempt a fortress and see how far I can get D:
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I was thinking more along the lines of this legendary champion, all clad in dented and dinged up steel plate, his blood-drenched axe slung over his back, a notch in the handle for every enemy that saw the swing of that blade as the last sight they ever saw, a battered shield strapped over his arm... and a fluffy, pink stuffed hippo hidden discretely in his breastplate.

Toady One

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.40.15 Released
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2014, 04:55:05 pm »

If you're starting a new world, you can remove snatchers for the time being by changing the entity raws, and that should stop it entirely, but that world wouldn't have snatchers when I do fix it.
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Akhram

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.40.15 Released
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2014, 05:12:17 pm »

That made me giggle. I need a few free hours asap to figure out this brand new rubick cube. I'm thirsty for more details of how it works and cannot wait to do science!

Thanks dude, you are really awesome.
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distractobot

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.40.15 Released
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2014, 07:27:59 pm »

Makes me happy:
   (*) Added a few categories to the kitchen menu
   (*) Alphabetized stone and kitchen menus
   (*) Added magma-safe indicator to stone menu

Makes me sad:
   (*) Animals that can escape from cages no longer brought by traders
   (*) Stopped crafts brought by traders from satisfying craft mandates
I liked the inevitable "bat escapes from elves" event, it made me feel like I wasn't the only one who would like to see them bathed in magma.

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Chevaleresse

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.40.15 Released
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2014, 12:59:33 am »

Incidentally, the sadness from missing relatives is 100% goblin snatcher victims.  I'm going to moderate the amounts for next time, but the wording doesn't reflect the actual horrific circumstances.

Is it possible to get a super quick release out to fix this? Or is there a way I can fix it on my end with a quick adjustment. IDK if this is a game breaker, some people are stating it is.

It's not consistently gamebreaking and there are certain ways to evade it with prior knowledge of the bug/feature (sounds like something halfways working as intended) but when it occurs you know that you're going to lose that dwarf within the next three years or so. Shorter depending on the number of apparently snatched relations.
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szielins

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.40.15 Released
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2014, 11:13:59 am »

Conveniently, Virginia Hughes has a piece up, "When Grief is Traumatic": http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2014/11/07/when-grief-is-traumatic/, which includes, "Vicki is part of the 10 percent of grievers who have prolonged grief, also known as complicated grief or traumatic grief. Grieving is an intense, painful, and yet altogether healthy experience. What’s unhealthy is when the symptoms of grief — such as yearning for the dead, feeling anger about the loss, or a sense of being stuck — last for six months or more."

With enough time, most survivors mostly get over most things.  And in the pre-industrial world, something like a third of the children didn't live past the age of five, people died at home rather than in a hospital, and families prepared their own dead for burial.  Europeans displayed the bodies of executed criminals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbeting), and watched the blood sport of dogs fighting bears  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear-baiting) all the way up to the late Enlightenment.  Hence, people routinely saw not only dead animals, but also dead sentients and dead kin.  For that matter, my own junior high school biology class had a (real) human skeleton on a stand; it wasn't a source of stress, and I tUrNeD oUt jUsT fInE.
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Northstar1989

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Re: Dwarf Fortress 0.40.15 Released
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2014, 08:04:24 pm »

Conveniently, Virginia Hughes has a piece up, "When Grief is Traumatic": http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2014/11/07/when-grief-is-traumatic/, which includes, "Vicki is part of the 10 percent of grievers who have prolonged grief, also known as complicated grief or traumatic grief. Grieving is an intense, painful, and yet altogether healthy experience. What’s unhealthy is when the symptoms of grief — such as yearning for the dead, feeling anger about the loss, or a sense of being stuck — last for six months or more."

With enough time, most survivors mostly get over most things.  And in the pre-industrial world, something like a third of the children didn't live past the age of five, people died at home rather than in a hospital, and families prepared their own dead for burial.  Europeans displayed the bodies of executed criminals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbeting), and watched the blood sport of dogs fighting bears  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear-baiting) all the way up to the late Enlightenment.  Hence, people routinely saw not only dead animals, but also dead sentients and dead kin.  For that matter, my own junior high school biology class had a (real) human skeleton on a stand; it wasn't a source of stress, and I tUrNeD oUt jUsT fInE.


Yeah, there's no question that the grief/stress process in Dwarf Fortress is incredibly over-the-top.  In real life, people learned to DEAL with that kind of stress- death became a commonplace, and people lived all the time around it.  Even in the middle of the black plague, where many towns lost 80-90% of their population, you didn't usually see the survivors descend into madness/anarchy and go killing the remaining survivors off...

The fact is, the stress/tantrum "features" of Dwarf Fortress are the single most broken and unrealistic part of the game.  Anybody with even a basic understanding of sociology or psychology (I've taken a couple college courses in those subjects back in the day) will tell you as much...


Regards,
Northstar

P.S.  The *best* way to fix the balance, and make tantrum-spirals a non-thing (as they largely should be), would be to make it MUCH easier for Dwarves to acquire the "hardened" psychological states where they cease to care about anything bad that happens anymore.  A Dwarf that survived the loss of his mother, father, brother, and three cousins a 2-4 years ago shouldn't suddenly lose his marbles when he loses his little sister today- he should have learned to deal with death by now...
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 08:09:40 pm by Northstar1989 »
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