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Author Topic: Pokemon Rivals Tournament #3, the rivalening  (Read 14508 times)

Bluerobin

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Pokemon Rivals Tournament #3, the rivalening
« on: November 18, 2014, 01:31:55 pm »

Time to get the third (annual?) Bay12 Pokemon Rivalry tournament underway! The last time this was run was about a year ago, but the rules have been tweaked and the length of the tournament has been toned down. The general idea is that the tournament mimics a playthrough of the games. You start at a low level with one unevolved Pokemon and no EVs. As you travel, you "catch" pokemon based on the routes you choose to travel down, gather items for your Pokemon to wield and, hopefully obviously, battle the other participants. There are 7 rounds of the tournament, one for each town, and watching the teams develop organically is pretty great.

By now, most of the participants have their starters chosen from a list of typically underused Pokemon. This Pokemon has the distinction of being the only member of your team that can not be traded or swapped out later in the tournament once more than 6 Pokemon are acquired. The first round begins in just a few days!

Rules are outlined below. Links to Google Docs with all of the required information will be after the spoilers, in case that's convenient.
Spoiler: Format (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The rounds (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Additional notes (click to show/hide)
External Links:
Rules
Map
Pokemon availability by route
Scores!

Please make sure you read through everything at least once! There are competitive battling rules in there that many people may not be familiar with, as well as hopefully thorough descriptions of everything for the tournament. I'll remind people what's in store for each round as we go, but it's good to have a plan in mind now!

Players (Showdown name in parentheses if different):
Bluerobin
Broken (Broken65)
Orb (Orb370)
Urist Imiknorris (UristImiknorris)
RoryTehNoob
Culise
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 05:28:47 pm by Bluerobin »
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The moment the lever was pulled, somebody's pet kitten stepped onto the bridge. I read somewhere that if a cat falls more than 11 stories, it instinctively flares its legs out to increase air resistance. This slows it down enough to stick the landing with relatively minor injuries. In Dwarf Fortress, apparently, cats don't do that.

Bluerobin

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Re: Pokemon Rivals- the brainstormening
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2014, 02:26:18 pm »

Spoiler: Old OP (click to show/hide)

« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 03:45:05 pm by Bluerobin »
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The moment the lever was pulled, somebody's pet kitten stepped onto the bridge. I read somewhere that if a cat falls more than 11 stories, it instinctively flares its legs out to increase air resistance. This slows it down enough to stick the landing with relatively minor injuries. In Dwarf Fortress, apparently, cats don't do that.

Broken

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Re: Pokemon Rivals- the brainstormening
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2014, 04:14:37 pm »

I am in.

Can we choose any starter, or will you give a list?
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 04:17:19 pm by Broken »
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In a hole in the ground there lived a dwarf. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a dwarf fortress, and that means magma.
Dwarf fortress: Tales of terror and inevitability

Bluerobin

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Re: Pokemon Rivals- the brainstormening
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2014, 05:05:34 pm »

Good question. You will probably be able to choose anything, although if that's the case there will be a short list of banned Pokemon. Things like Uber-ranked Pokemon that don't evolve would be on that list. Things like Torchic and Honedge would probably be on another list of "recommended to avoid" because their highest evolutions are Uber and their use will be heavily restricted, so you would have to keep them as Combusken/Doublade for the vast majority of the tournament.

Edit: Rules docs added to the end of the OP. I'll work on making them more reader-friendly as well, but this way people can potentially comment on changes they think could be good to make. So far the biggest hurdles look to be:
1) Do we change gyms? They add a fair amount of additional work, they're kind of hard to balance, and they add to the number of battles, but they're pretty fun and good for RP/immersion.
2) Do we change the number of players or the number of battles per round? I like the idea of going down to only battling 3/8 or 4/8 of the possible opponents each round to make it move faster, but it complicates organization significantly.
3) What to do with the Elite 4/Champion bit. We never got there the last time this was run, everything fizzled before we got there, but it seems like it's another case of something that's potentially interesting, but hard to balance and doesn't interact super well with the rest of the tournament. I guess it'd be ok to leave it as something optional to do if people want after everything's done.
4) Do we keep in the rounds with legendaries and ubers?  Based on the first Rivals tournament they have the potential to kind of invalidate a lot of other choices, since they can be really unfairly good. They can also be incredibly mediocre if chosen poorly. Basically, what they add seems to be less than the issues they can cause.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 05:38:53 pm by Bluerobin »
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The moment the lever was pulled, somebody's pet kitten stepped onto the bridge. I read somewhere that if a cat falls more than 11 stories, it instinctively flares its legs out to increase air resistance. This slows it down enough to stick the landing with relatively minor injuries. In Dwarf Fortress, apparently, cats don't do that.

Culise

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Re: Pokemon Rivals Tournament- the brainstormening
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2014, 07:49:56 pm »

It may also be worth adding the unofficial tier list to the useful links, since the majority of players don't actually play using Smogon's banlists, and we had significant issues with that the first time we started setting up tournaments here in previous years.  This is the location of the usage tiers and some advice (though take it with a grain of salt; this tourney won't be your typical tiered meta).  Basic overview of the tiers can be found here, but for a basic overview:
Ubers: These are kings of kings, queens of queens, the brave, the bold, the broken.  This is where stuff that fundamentally destabilizes the metagame goes to rest. 
OU: Over-Used.  The most commonly-used Pokemon in the meta. 
BL: Border-Line.  Stuff that's not commonly used, but still powerful enough to break the next meta-game below. 
UU: Under-Used.  Not as used as OU, but still often used.  Frequently one-trick-ponies that can be countered relatively easily, powerful stuff with some key weakness, or just plain "good but not good enough for the top leagues." 
RU: Rarely-Used.  Between UU and NU.  Not much else to say.
NU: Never-Used.  Everything else. 
LC: Little Cup.  Special tourney structure geared around unevolved Pokemon that can evolve, done at level 5. 
NFE: Not Fully Evolved. 

Posting to watch thus far; I haven't actually played since the first rivals tourney over a year ago (the latest one was the second such). 
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Broken

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Re: Pokemon Rivals Tournament- the brainstormening
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2014, 09:42:30 am »

Ok, i will take vulpix as starter.
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In a hole in the ground there lived a dwarf. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a dwarf fortress, and that means magma.
Dwarf fortress: Tales of terror and inevitability

Bluerobin

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Re: Pokemon Rivals Tournament- the brainstormening
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2014, 11:22:42 am »

Thanks Culise.

I'm going to try and make sure I keep going on this, but there are a couple things I need to investigate pretty thoroughly, so I wouldn't anticipate this starting in the next week. Just so people know. Right now I'm most interested in making sure it's as simple, thought through, and relatively airtight as possible. I don't know how well I'll be able to do on the first pass, but I may as well try.

Edit: Argh, it's starting to look like the easiest way to do this is to make an actual Pokemon game with the Pokemon Essentials RPGMaker pack and bake the rules in that way. I'll have to see how difficult internet battles are with that... it might end up being worth it. I'll have to see if there are still bugs in some moves with Essentials.

Edit2: Oh, there was a relatively recent release that makes it look like this may actually be a relatively easy way to do this. Hmmmmmm.

Edit3: Noooope. It's not updated for gen 6 and has no online play. Both of those are possible to get working, but it would be a lot of work, so it's not particularly worthwhile.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 12:24:15 pm by Bluerobin »
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The moment the lever was pulled, somebody's pet kitten stepped onto the bridge. I read somewhere that if a cat falls more than 11 stories, it instinctively flares its legs out to increase air resistance. This slows it down enough to stick the landing with relatively minor injuries. In Dwarf Fortress, apparently, cats don't do that.

Bluerobin

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Re: Pokemon Rivals Tournament- the brainstormening
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2014, 04:53:37 pm »

Ok. I put some serious time and thought into this and came up with a simpler tournament that I think should still be fun. Rules are in spoilers below and also in a Google Doc here (still open to commenting if anyone feels like it).
Spoiler: Format (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The Rounds (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Additional Notes (click to show/hide)

A tl;dr for people that have looked through the rules before:
1) Only 7 rounds. Pokemon level faster, and get max EVs sooner.
2) Custom Passes as rewards throughout. Can be spent to learn/relearn moves, change Abilities, etc.
3) TMs separated from other items. They are bought with Custom Passes.
4) Gyms removed, but three "NPC" fights still persist, with Custom Passes as their main rewards.
5) Players doing poorly get additional Custom Passes to hopefully help them tweak their teams and rebound.
6) Starter Pokemon must be UU or below. I like the original spirit of trying to get some lesser-used Pokemon some time in the spotlight.
7) Distinct lists will be made for Pokemon available on each route. These lists will typically be pretty long.

Feedback is greatly appreciated. Map and lists of available Pokemon are next.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 11:10:20 am by Bluerobin »
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The moment the lever was pulled, somebody's pet kitten stepped onto the bridge. I read somewhere that if a cat falls more than 11 stories, it instinctively flares its legs out to increase air resistance. This slows it down enough to stick the landing with relatively minor injuries. In Dwarf Fortress, apparently, cats don't do that.

Broken

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Re: Pokemon Rivals Tournament- rules modification complete
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2014, 04:52:26 pm »

No replies yet? I am Sad.

Anyway, i will take Cottonee from the list. The Troll sheep is awesome.
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In a hole in the ground there lived a dwarf. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a dwarf fortress, and that means magma.
Dwarf fortress: Tales of terror and inevitability

Orb

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Re: Pokemon Rivals Tournament- rules modification complete
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2014, 08:03:14 pm »

I was waiting for Bluerobin to get everything together. Seems like a fun idea overall.
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Bluerobin

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Re: Pokemon Rivals Tournament- rules modification complete
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2014, 08:12:16 pm »

Yeah, I was hoping for people to pipe up, but knowing that there are people lurking helps my motivation. The list of starter mons is almost together, and the giganto list of "settings where you could find every mon in existence" is shaping up. Once I have that it's just a matter of picking from it in interesting ways. Oh and making a map, but thanks to the fine example of Culise's that I have to work from, that should be reasonably quick.

Broken, you're welcome to keep your Vulpix. It should still be on the list once it's done, if it isn't already.
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The moment the lever was pulled, somebody's pet kitten stepped onto the bridge. I read somewhere that if a cat falls more than 11 stories, it instinctively flares its legs out to increase air resistance. This slows it down enough to stick the landing with relatively minor injuries. In Dwarf Fortress, apparently, cats don't do that.

Bluerobin

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Re: Pokemon Rivals Tournament- rules modification complete
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2014, 12:01:12 am »

OK! Starter list is here:
Spoiler: Sorted by Ranking (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Sorted Alphabetically (click to show/hide)
With that I'd say we're ready to start recruiting people. Feel free to post if you're interested in joining, and include the starter you'd like from that list!

Edit: In case you're interested, here's what the "giganto list of climates where you could find every mon in existence" looks like. The route lists will be built from that!
« Last Edit: November 25, 2014, 10:39:56 am by Bluerobin »
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The moment the lever was pulled, somebody's pet kitten stepped onto the bridge. I read somewhere that if a cat falls more than 11 stories, it instinctively flares its legs out to increase air resistance. This slows it down enough to stick the landing with relatively minor injuries. In Dwarf Fortress, apparently, cats don't do that.

Orb

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Re: Pokemon Rivals Tournament- rules modification complete
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2014, 10:39:04 am »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I choose Trapinch.

When do we decide moves/berries/abilities, at the end of round 1?
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Bluerobin

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Re: Pokemon Rivals Tournament- rules modification complete
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2014, 10:49:53 am »

You'll need those before round 1, so you can do them whenever. The restrictions are in the rules, although there's one important change. Basically:

You can have any moves that would be learned by level 10.
You can have any one egg move that can't be learned by level up later. This was the change. You'll have to use Custom Passes for the extra egg moves. With this change I'm going to increase the number of Custom Passes slightly, though, so you should still be able to get the moves you want... eventually.

You can pick any ability, but once you have it the only way to change it is with a Custom Pass.

You can pick any berry, but you'll have it the whole tournament. You'll probably still want an Oran or Sitris berry, but just keep that in mind.
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The moment the lever was pulled, somebody's pet kitten stepped onto the bridge. I read somewhere that if a cat falls more than 11 stories, it instinctively flares its legs out to increase air resistance. This slows it down enough to stick the landing with relatively minor injuries. In Dwarf Fortress, apparently, cats don't do that.

Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Pokemon Rivals Tournament- rules modification complete
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2014, 11:21:02 am »

I guess I'll get in on this, and I'll start with Noibat.

Spoiler: Data (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 02:55:01 pm by Urist Imiknorris »
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