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[Urist Tilaturist]

Recently I played a fort which had no water whatsoever. Somehow I was able to brew enough booze for dwarves to thrive, but as soon as anyone got injured, he was inevitably doomed. This really makes very little sense even by dwarven standards.

A solution:

Allow wounds to be cleaned with booze, or with a hot iron from a furnace, though this has a chance of further wounding the dwarf or even setting him alight if the medic is unskilled (there has to be some !!fun!! after all). Allow muddy cave water to be boiled in a furnace and made usable for drinking and cleaning. Allow snow to be gathered and melted into water.

Before anyone says that dwarves would never use alcohol to clean wounds, they could still use hot irons.

To make things harder, booze can be divided into strong and weak drinks. To make strong drinks (rum, whisky), they must be further distilled after brewing, using fuel. However, these drinks are more valuable and make dwarves happier.

[Badger Storm]

Technically, we already have (dwarven) rum and (swamp) whiskey.  I would like to see rye and corn whiskey, as well as brandy from fruit wine.

[smeeprocket]

Wow no water, you didn't even have any underground?

I've been specifically picking embarks with fresh running water sources to avoid any problems with even stagnant or salt water. That sounds hard.

The other thing I really need to try is a place with no wood. How would one make beds?

Oh I should add an opinion on your suggest. That is, I actually like it. It would be neat to get more options, I especially like using hot irons to cleanse, at least certain, wounds.

[Frogging101]

I agree, but I think your approach is slightly misdirected. What really doesn't make sense is that you can even have a fort with lots of booze but no water. The alcohol in DF is made with no water being involved at any point in the process: The plants grow without water, and the alcohol is brewed without water. Maybe these are dwarven plants which need no water, but that doesn't explain where all this liquid alcohol comes from.

I have no idea how alcohol is created IRL, but just from a physics standpoint something seems off about this. For water to be in the product, there has to be water in the reactants. Unless the alcohol doesn't contain water, in which case I doubt it would be at all drinkable, and it certainly could not satisfy the physiological need for water without containing water.

[smeeprocket]

Maybe there should just be a way to collect rain water. Although, what if it doesn't rain where you are?

[Urist Tilaturist]

I agree, but I think your approach is slightly misdirected. What really doesn't make sense is that you can even have a fort with lots of booze but no water. The alcohol in DF is made with no water being involved at any point in the process: The plants grow without water, and the alcohol is brewed without water. Maybe these are dwarven plants which need no water, but that doesn't explain where all this liquid alcohol comes from.

I have no idea how alcohol is created IRL, but just from a physics standpoint something seems off about this. For water to be in the product, there has to be water in the reactants. Unless the alcohol doesn't contain water, in which case I doubt it would be at all drinkable, and it certainly could not satisfy the physiological need for water without containing water.

Alcohol is made from fermentation of sugar. It is possible to brew some alcohol using only the water stored in the plant itself - over ripe fruit ferments and tastes slightly alcoholic without adding any water, for example. To make large volumes of drinkable alcohol from grain, though, water must be added. These plants must have some water source in order to grow, either from rain or the ground. Rain should be collectable, and wells should not require a pool underneath but instead also be able to draw from ground water.

My fort had underground water, but it was muddy and could not be used.

[Niddhoger]

Alcohol is made from fermentation of sugar. It is possible to brew some alcohol using only the water stored in the plant itself... To make large volumes of drinkable alcohol from grain, though, water must be added.

What he said.  FRUITS will often have enough water in them to brew booze with.  However, grains (barley, millet, rye, wheat, etc) woul definitely need extra water added.  More importantly, fermentation is a long weeks/months long process that can't simply be done on the spot.  There is a reason select brewers boast about how long they age products. 

To the OP.... Its not simply that wounds must be dressed with water, but that injured dwarves only drink water.  Look at the labors list and you'll see "feed patients/prisoners." This labor ONLY considers water as a valid option, not booze.  So Dwarves that have drunk nothing but booze all their life will be left to die of dehydration if they come down with the sniffles if there is no available source of water. 

I agree with you though, using clean water to treat wounds should be the default, but there should be some type of hospital/activity zone order where you can enable the use of booze to clean wounds (or feed pirsoners/patients). 

[Bumber]

These plants must have some water source in order to grow, either from rain or the ground. Rain should be collectable, and wells should not require a pool underneath but instead also be able to draw from ground water.

Isn't ground water the same thing as an aquifer?

[dwarf_reform]

I didn't even know til recently that the quality of the water determines the success of cleaning wounds :O I've been washing wounds with trash-water for ages

That injured dwarves only get water seems like an added layer of torture on an already bad situation :> Booze should be the priority drink for patients, as always, with water being secondary, as usual

A dwarven variant of 'antiseptic' or isopropyl alcohol would be handy as well.. That, plus carrying around some bandages and maybe some natural antibiotics and/or painkillers, could lead to a nice field-medic position in future dwarven warmaking.. Hopefully, when we can finally send squads out into the world in-game, we'll have to assign cooks and doctors to the squads for maximum effectiveness..

I also share a feeling of kinship with this thread, since we both have the word 'reform' in our titles The origin of the name came from my desperate want to be able to assume control of a single fort during active fortress mode (TO PULL MY OWN LEVER, ON TIME!!).. It'll never happen, bahaha

Anyway, +1 for equal drinking rights for injured dwarves! End the abuse!

[GavJ]

You're doing it wrong. The consistency you seek should come from the exact opposite solution: making everything require water, not making nothing require water.

I'm not sure how to do that while allowing the early game to be still playable in interestingly different biomes, though.

[Urist Tilaturist]

Easy, just make rain and ground water collectable. Brewing then requires water, as does weapon and armour smithing and a number of other industrial processes.

[utunnels]

I think Urist died from dehydration because the doctor told him not to consume any alcohol until fully recovered.
OK I'm kidding.
But I do like the idea that you can clean wounds using booze.

[Deepblade]

That injured dwarves only get water seems like an added layer of torture on an already bad situation :> Booze should be the priority drink for patients, as always, with water being secondary, as usual

...

Anyway, +1 for equal drinking rights for injured dwarves! End the abuse!

I seem recall an episode of M*A*S*H where British troops with abdominal wounds were given tea for tea time and when they made it to the operating room they had additional problems, as this increased the chance of infection and death. It's the reasoning I've always used for why dwarf patients aren't given alcohol.

[MDFification]

You're doing it wrong. The consistency you seek should come from the exact opposite solution: making everything require water, not making nothing require water.

I'm not sure how to do that while allowing the early game to be still playable in interestingly different biomes, though.

Seconded. The idea that you can have a city-building game without taking into account one of the strict necessities for life is just plain silly.

[GoblinCookie]

I seem recall an episode of M*A*S*H where British troops with abdominal wounds were given tea for tea time and when they made it to the operating room they had additional problems, as this increased the chance of infection and death. It's the reasoning I've always used for why dwarf patients aren't given alcohol.

Except they will give dwarves muddy and stagnant water to drink or wash wounds instead.