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Author Topic: Cavern Keeper - In game labor manager with detailed character information.  (Read 8944 times)

strainer

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Linux version for 44.10 in the messy github stockpile here
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Jazz Cat

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This looks like a fantastic utility--I'm coming from Dwarf Therapist, and this looks like an excellent alternative. I'm curious: How are the aptitude scores calculated? And is there any way to customize that? With the new stress balance, I'm considering giving dwarves more jobs they'd prefer to do rather than only taking into account what jobs they'd be good at.
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My DF name generator 
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Just give the Crossbow weapon the [AMMO:CROSSBOW] tag in the raws. You can make a crossbow that shoots crossbows.

strainer

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Hi Jazz Cat, well I didnt mean to compete with Therapist but I had a severe eyesight problem last year and couldn't theme Therapist well enough to see it, so I started adding features to this dfhack plugin "manipulator" to use in its place. Wonderfuly, I got my eyesight fixed a few months ago and therapist does looks like it has helpful features, but a long learning/exporation curve.

I think CKeepers strength is you can just read what each unit likes and dreams about as you scroll through the list (without having to jump and scroll around other screens) - so its relatively easy to give out suitable jobs in on arrival, and then later if they are stressed, to see how to treat them further, and its not such a chore to read their extended in-game descriptions when its only for special/interesting cases.

The "aptitude" scores which color hint the labor grid only concern how well&quickly the unit will do that job, its calculated accurately according to previous sourcecode with the mind and body stats... it basically just averages the dwarves stats that are exercised by each job/activity, and then some cross adjustment is done to make the color hinting pattern. It would be very complicating to involve more information to it and there is no way to customize it at the moment without developing the sourcecode.

Other scores are calculated which do involve happiness somewhat. They enable the dwarves to be sorted by suitability for military, medic, scholar, academic and laborer. These rankings are only good for review and curiosity not for solving specific problem cases. Its a bit complicated to configure one, they could be made customisable through a text file, like with the raws...

Yeh, if you end up with ideas or tweaks that are not too complicating I can integrate them. Although, Dwarf Therapist is always going to excel for customization.

Im a bit behind on compiles for latest DFjack versions, if I dont have your OS/version made let me know.
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Jazz Cat

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Oh, I didn't mean to imply you were competing to Therapist. I was just saying it's comparable to Therapist in terms of usability! Therapist is a little more versatile but CK is more compact and portable, I'd say. I quite like it.

The aptitude customization is certainly quite the task, though, I'll agree with you. DF is in-depth enough that there's no easy way to judge how much a certain dwarf would enjoy a certain labor.

If I think of any quick suggestions I'll let you know. Right now I'm still getting a feel for it, so I haven't got a sense of what else I might want out of it yet. I am having a bit of trouble with the CdnNtT options, though--I've got most of them but I can't figure out what the t and T cycle through. What do those two adjust?

Oh, and I'm on Linux right now but I usually play on Windows, so a Windows build for 44.10 would be excellent if you have time.
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My DF name generator 
My holiday mod (only offensive to elves)
The check-laundry script

Quote
Just give the Crossbow weapon the [AMMO:CROSSBOW] tag in the raws. You can make a crossbow that shoots crossbows.

strainer

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I doff my cap to Therapist since there was some perceived rivalry from comments, which Ive played up to :D - no slight from therapists developers though.

Good that you have tried 44.10

All the detail options are on by default now for the 44.10 version. 't' and 'T' cycle through the labor grids color modes:  there are 4 hues of monochrome theme with no aptitude hints (probably superfluous), and 4 levels of aptitude hinting ranging between just a handfull of labors colored as strong/weak, to about 75% of them colored. Also there is a cheat mode to let skill points to be moved around after embark, enabled by pressing 'T' about 10 times - saves on figuring the skills out in the pre-embark screens.

The scores for 'focus' are a bit fuzzy at the moment because Tarn has made that more complex than it was, possibly multi-dimensional, but they are still meaningful.

And the 'keep' column is actually stress/-1000. Im thinking about renaming it now that stress is more like... stress, again. Maybe "Wits" or "Tale" - I dont handle stress well myself, in a UI or AFK :)

Thanks for the input. I will get around to that win compile in a bit, have to swap a hard drive for it and things...
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Jazz Cat

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Ah, I think it was the four monochrome themes that was throwing me off. I kept trying to figure out if they all did something different. As a side note, I seem to have broken the default color theme somehow by cycling through those--every time I open CKeeper it displays strong (adamantine) aptitudes in red and everything else in grey. It goes back to normal after pressing C once, though. Not sure how I managed that.

You could call the "keep" column something like "happiness" or "relaxation" or "contentment."

Oh, and I don't know how hard this would be to implement, but an equipment overview would be a great screen to have, maybe as one of the options you can get to with the tab key. I'd love to be able to see at a glance if any of my dwarves were running around naked or missing battle-axes.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 04:40:06 pm by Jazz Cat »
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My DF name generator 
My holiday mod (only offensive to elves)
The check-laundry script

Quote
Just give the Crossbow weapon the [AMMO:CROSSBOW] tag in the raws. You can make a crossbow that shoots crossbows.

strainer

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You could call the "keep" column something like "happiness" or "relaxation" or "contentment."

See they would create a quite empty column 10 ascii characters wide. 4- 6 characters is ideal, preferably lyrical word, dorf themed like 'grit'. But not grit... Im waiting for a lyrical genius to crack it... but now their mentality is affect by memories, 'Tale' seems like a contender.

You can see if units have "no pants anger", no shirt, or no shoes, in the 'notices' listing actually. I think its pretty useful for finding issues, also can see there who is hurt or just a bit ruffed up after a fight and things, or thirsty, drunk etc.

Get the notices listing up by pressing tab a couple of times. (Tab just changes what its listed in the column before the labor grid) It doesn't get interesting until stuff happens. If its clear, theres not much going on, yet. 'n' changes wether it includes notices of werebeast, vampires and curses.

I will keep an eye out for how to include military uniform/weapon status.
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lethosor

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If it's based on stress, why not just "stress"? I think being understandable is more important than saving a letter or two. I'd have no idea what "keep", "grit", or "tale" mean if I hadn't seen this thread.
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There was a typo in the siegers' campfire code. When the fires went out, so did the game.

Jazz Cat

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If it's based on stress, why not just "stress"? I think being understandable is more important than saving a letter or two. I'd have no idea what "keep", "grit", or "tale" mean if I hadn't seen this thread.

The column in question is negatively related to stress (keep = stress/-1000). Higher numbers mean happier dwarves, which is why I thought "happiness" would be a good title to it.
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My DF name generator 
My holiday mod (only offensive to elves)
The check-laundry script

Quote
Just give the Crossbow weapon the [AMMO:CROSSBOW] tag in the raws. You can make a crossbow that shoots crossbows.

strainer

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Happiness is good and simple for Therapist with it is proportional font and flexible screenspace, but there is pressure squeezing in the name column, details and labor grid to the minimum 80 character wide space.

I hear the opinion, that its called "stress" and that should be that, but in Tarns long descriptions he doesnt just refer to stress or to being "unstressed" ever, the long descriptions use varied language - as lyrical as possible. Its just the sourcecode symbol for that counter that was engraved in stone, then it evolved through being nerfed to near meaninglessness (distracted and undistracted focus worked totally independently) and now its a kind of integration of reflexions on past experience.

Maybe just a whim but I dont think 'Tale' would be very obscure, and feels ok for the interface to be a bit engimatic within reason. "Hmm what do the numbers underneath 'Tale' mean? - that dwarf is -7 red now, that doesnt look positive... what does his description say... having a bad time there... maybe the green +5 means good tales ?...it does, i think there's a pattern here... "

In the end changing it back to stress is dead easy, even with the code in its current state of disarray, which I intend to deal with sometime :)

I havent figured out how to fully calculate the knew kind of 'focus' yet. The old counters for distracted and undistracted focus have seemingly been abandoned. Im calculating a score that's roughly in line with the game descriptions with this code:
Code: [Select]
    auto needs = uin->unit->status.current_soul->personality.needs;
    int fo = 0;   
    for (size_t c=0; c<needs.size(); c++){
        fo+= needs[c]->focus_level * needs[c]->need_level;
    }

But there seems to be more to discover.
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Jazz Cat

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If space is a big issue you could call it "joy." I agree that "tale" is more enigmatic, but that's not what I'm usually looking for in a utility like this. I have a hard enough time muddling through all the poorly documented DFHack plugins I find around here without the titles of things being obscure and confusing.
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My DF name generator 
My holiday mod (only offensive to elves)
The check-laundry script

Quote
Just give the Crossbow weapon the [AMMO:CROSSBOW] tag in the raws. You can make a crossbow that shoots crossbows.

strainer

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Joy would actually be deceptive because the score doesnt mean that either. Thats why I didnt go with "mirth". Anyway you'll know what it means now whatever, and theres a help screen too. At the end of the day everyones entitled to a full refund :P
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Jazz Cat

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Yeah, that's fair enough! And it's your plugin, after all.
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My DF name generator 
My holiday mod (only offensive to elves)
The check-laundry script

Quote
Just give the Crossbow weapon the [AMMO:CROSSBOW] tag in the raws. You can make a crossbow that shoots crossbows.

strainer

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Thanks, Ive been developing it independently since manipulators maintainers werent interested, its a bit of a quirky pet project now. I did change about 20 of the dwarfs description words according to suggestions on reddit, they were really tricky to figure out and refine. Im not sure what to do with the label, but sure anything will be clearer than 'keep' now :)
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