Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Rolan7]

Lots of sweeping generalizations going around   

I don't see how making better female characters is selling out to a lowest common denominator of women, I agree that everyone can appreciate it.  I think the publishers with the dollars feel safer focusing on graphics, then gameplay, then throwing in trite characters who insult men and women alike.  (I don't like the idea that my dream is to be a meathead who picks up airheads!)

And viciously, part of the difficulty is that people are finally paying attention to female characters with actual character, and analyzing them...  So it's safer to only have 2-line NPC females who don't get analyzed.  Risky things like new Lara Croft (and the island of graphic deaths) get super analyzed.  Actually...  That's free press, why aren't more companies getting in on that?  The controversy could actually be positive for once.

because most female gamers are interested in games with content. And we are interested in the same games as males.

You've just been arguing the opposite for the entire thread.

No, she's been arguing that they're excluded.  Which is really true (to the extent that it detracts from my experience as a male gamer, sometimes).  People keep misinterpreting that as "cover up all skin and shoehorn in characterless female protagonists at any cost", and arguing against that.

[smeeprocket]

And really, none of you see Loud Whisper's stereotyping of women gamers as incredibly offensively sexist? DO you really think that's what the bulk of female gamers are looking for?

No, so it sure is a good job that LW didn't say that, isn't it?
He gave an example of successful games that largely market to women.

and implied that we got marketed towards so what was I complaining about.

That's just more of the same sexism from marketing execs. Excluding us from the bulk of the games, the ones with actual content, and isolating us to these ridiculously gendered games that have no depth.

[Caz]

Candy Crush Saga isn't even really marketing towards women, it is marketed towards what marketing execs think women want, because they are all 1950s era males.

What if the situation was reversed and all the FPS and RPG games had strong women characters and scantily clad (in a way that sexually appeals to straight women as opposed to a male power fantasy) men and when you want representation, we are argued "well there are games like Deer Hunter, that's appealing to men. You are just arguing that you want your types of games and not the games that are meant for your gender.)

So you want game designers to cater more to what women want in games... but when they do this they're outdated sexists from the 50's. ok.jpg

[smeeprocket]

There's plenty of women on here and we play dwarf fortress, and I have yet to see a highly popular with the females tile set that makes everything neon pink.

... Hrmm...
Now I have an idea for a tileset. ☆☆Girl's☆☆ ✿✿Night✿✿ ☆☆at☆☆✿✿DF✿✿ anyone?
An extremely clichéd and gaudy tileset that makes your Dwarf Fortress game look like a geocities website made by a 13 year old. Default font? Comic sans, of course!

okay, yea, I would probably use that tileset.

But only because of the nostalgic feeling of old geocities pages that overused comic sans.

Make it as stereotyped as possible please.

[Urist Tilaturist]

What Loud Whispers said was a little insensitive and incomplete, but it is no more offensive than your comments about men and accusations against them. You have used quite harsh language, so expect some back.

All marketing is towards what marketing execs think the audience want. Some - not all - women like candy crush, and it has sold. That is a fact. What is also a fact is that a male MP was caught playing candy crush in parliament recently. Was he targeted by 1950s sexists too?

Comic sans came from Watchmen.

[smeeprocket]

Candy Crush Saga isn't even really marketing towards women, it is marketed towards what marketing execs think women want, because they are all 1950s era males.

What if the situation was reversed and all the FPS and RPG games had strong women characters and scantily clad (in a way that sexually appeals to straight women as opposed to a male power fantasy) men and when you want representation, we are argued "well there are games like Deer Hunter, that's appealing to men. You are just arguing that you want your types of games and not the games that are meant for your gender.)

So you want game designers to cater more to what women want in games... but when they do this they're outdated sexists from the 50's. ok.jpg

seriously, stop it, you are just doubling down on the sexism.

That is what 12 year old girls (only some of them) want from games. That is not an excuse to exclude us from all the good gamesd because we get this sectioned off ridiculously sexist tiny selection of games and if we don't like it suck it up.

This is not a valid point. Female gamers don't generally care about Kardashian based games. We play MMOs and RPGs and FPSs just like you.

[Neonivek]

Candy Crush Saga isn't even really marketing towards women, it is marketed towards what marketing execs think women want, because they are all 1950s era males.

What if the situation was reversed and all the FPS and RPG games had strong women characters and scantily clad (in a way that sexually appeals to straight women as opposed to a male power fantasy) men and when you want representation, we are argued "well there are games like Deer Hunter, that's appealing to men. You are just arguing that you want your types of games and not the games that are meant for your gender.)

So you want game designers to cater more to what women want in games... but when they do this they're outdated sexists from the 50's. ok.jpg

It is because they aren't catering to what women want in a SPECIFIC way.

Catering to the lowest common denominator I don't think is what smeeprocket wants... such as including Super Models or Pop stars or Princesses is more games... Even if that would be a easy way to make them more popular with women.

In fact quite a few games... do this already.

[Fniff]

Comic sans came from Watchmen.

Indeed. Comic sans is an okay font... For what it is. Use it beyond it's purview, and suddenly it becomes extremely aggravating. The same thing could happen to any respectable font: imagine if everything from birthday cards to default fonts on mobiles was Times New Roman?

[Caz]

seriously, stop it, you are just doubling down on the sexism.

That is what 12 year old girls (only some of them) want from games. That is not an excuse to exclude us from all the good gamesd because we get this sectioned off ridiculously sexist tiny selection of games and if we don't like it suck it up.

This is not a valid point. Female gamers don't generally care about Kardashian based games. We play MMOs and RPGs and FPSs just like you.

How are you excluded? When you try to play any of these games, does a window come up on the install screen and say "Sorry, you are female" before the hard drive melts itself?

Female games pretty much exclusively play those Kardashian-based games, so I'm not sure why you are saying they don't care about it. Of course such a game isn't going to be mainstream popular, but you can't say that they're irrelevant just because you don't play those particular games.

[Neonivek]

Female games pretty much exclusively play those Kardashian-based games, so I'm not sure why you are saying they don't care about it. Of course such a game isn't going to be mainstream popular, but you can't say that they're irrelevant just because you don't play those particular games.

If you are saying that exclusively women play Kardashian-based games, as in men won't play them... fair enough

But if you are saying women gamers, as a whole, only play Kardashian games... uhhh... no

While the numbers fluxuate a lot depending on the game (15% for highly violent games) the male to female ratio for genres tend to go from anywhere from 30%-50% female

As well I HONESTLY do not include Candy Crush as part of "Games" if only because while Candy Crush is a game. It is like comparing Comic Books to Novels, just because they are both books.

[Graknorke]

and implied that we got marketed towards so what was I complaining about.

That's just more of the same sexism from marketing execs. Excluding us from the bulk of the games, the ones with actual content, and isolating us to these ridiculously gendered games that have no depth.

That was really the only response to give though. You said to the effect of "nobody markets to women", to which he replied "some people do". The response could only be agreeing or disagreeing with you.

You are just arguing that you want your types of games and not the games that are meant for your gender.

And was this aimed at me? Did I just get burned?
No, but that isn't what I said. I never claimed anything about games being meant for your gender. However, there is something new brought up here (finally), which is with the impression of what is appropriate for each gender to be using. The same issue some people have with children's toys.

[pisskop]

It doesn't look like a flame war, more like a conversation with everyone wearing earmuffs.

WHAT?

Earmuffs are too mainstream.  I use headphones.

[Caz]

If you are saying that exclusively women play Kardashian-based games, as in men won't play them... fair enough

Yeah, most of the time this is almost universally true. I'm sure there's some exceptions, such as how MLP got so popular in the male demographic though it was originally targeted to girls.

But if you are saying women gamers, as a whole, only play Kardashian games... uhhh... no

While the numbers fluxuate a lot depending on the game (15% for highly violent games) the male to female ratio for genres tend to go from anywhere from 30%-50% female

That's not what I'm saying. That would be pretty stupid, all things considered.

[Neonivek]

I do wonder what are the reasons why so few women play highly violent games.

One the one hand I can look at Grand Theft Auto and its no women except for prostitutes...

But 30% for no female characters is typical. 15% means something about Grand Theft Auto just outright turns women off.

Either that or it is just so overwhelmingly popular with men that it overpowers the demographic.

[ed boy]

One the one hand I can look at Grand Theft Auto and its no women except for prostitutes...

What? There's plenty of non-prostitute women in the GTA games.