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Author Topic: Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods (0.44.12) - Revision 7: Guns & Fashion  (Read 115101 times)

Taffer

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Re: Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods (0.42.06) - Revision 5a
« Reply #180 on: May 22, 2016, 11:33:36 pm »

Hopefully the pain fixes in the current release should improve the remaining combat issues, with toes and such causing excessive pain. I had to double-check to see if the mod is currently editing that, but I don't think so: there's some size adjustments to faces, but I think that's to make creatures target the face less than due to pain.

Quote from: Toady One
• Made pain from broken tissues depend on relative part size
« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 11:35:17 pm by Taffer »
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Grimlocke

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Re: Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods (0.42.06) - Revision 5a
« Reply #181 on: May 24, 2016, 08:54:55 am »

The adjustements to face bits was more to reduce the odds of the AI constantly targeting and smashing them somehow without being affected by the helmet at all.

There is an interaction in the mod which substantially increases willpower while in combat, as a simulation of adrenaline. It should still be of use now since the game still won't account for the fact that people fighting or running for their life do not generally feel much pain at all.

Sadly interactions have gotten a bit... janky since I made that. In fortress mode it keeps getting used by creature who are not in combat and in adventurer mode enemies seem unable to use it at all. Your own adventurer will still have it and in fortress mode fights don't generally end with a 'giving into pain' until a combatant took enough damage that they wouldn't be able to fight for much anyway.

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Taffer

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Re: Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods (0.42.06) - Revision 5a
« Reply #182 on: June 20, 2016, 05:33:51 pm »

The adjustements to face bits was more to reduce the odds of the AI constantly targeting and smashing them somehow without being affected by the helmet at all.

There is an interaction in the mod which substantially increases willpower while in combat, as a simulation of adrenaline. It should still be of use now since the game still won't account for the fact that people fighting or running for their life do not generally feel much pain at all.

Sadly interactions have gotten a bit... janky since I made that. In fortress mode it keeps getting used by creature who are not in combat and in adventurer mode enemies seem unable to use it at all. Your own adventurer will still have it and in fortress mode fights don't generally end with a 'giving into pain' until a combatant took enough damage that they wouldn't be able to fight for much anyway.

If interactions have gotten a bit "janky", it might be worth undoing the change and minimizing changes to the DF raws? Up to you. At any rate, the latest release appears to have rebalanced and fixed some of the things your mod already tried to rebalance. I don't see any relevant RAW changes, implying that numbers considered unbalanced earlier might now be balanced and rebalanced numbers might now be unbalanced. If I had time I'd investigate further and do some combat arena testing.

I'm thinking of changes like:

Quote from: Toady One
• Made people wear more armor according to their roles again
• Made combat damage weapon and armors depending on material differences etc.
• Reduced clothing stopping power based on penetration depth

This fix isn't necessary anymore:

Quote from: Grimlocke
Made finger and toes internal. For some reason they do not come up in combat logs at all now. I think is slightly better then losing a hand because a child scratched your thumb off.

Reasoning:

Quote from: Toady One
• Made pain from broken tissues depend on relative part size
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 06:21:23 pm by Taffer »
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Grimlocke

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Re: Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods (0.42.06) - Revision 5a
« Reply #183 on: June 21, 2016, 01:24:41 pm »

I'll have to test the new armor stuff (time permitting, been a bit swamped), see if the AI now finally puts the right armor on the right bits and if they also cover all of said bits. I can remove the finger/toe/face bits changes if they are covered properly and do not explode at the first angry glare anymore.

As for the pain interaction and small bodypart adjustments, I would for now rather leave the interaction in. Its jankyness still seems preferably over the rather disappointing and unrealistic behavior of combatants passing out after the first broken bone. That's not a thing that people fighting for their lives do. The adjustment made for pain to be relative to bodypart size is a step in the right direction, but not quite there yet as far as I'm concerned.

I do hope my changes to armor materials does not end up flaking out the equipment breakage, and might have to counteract the clothing change for the cloth armor.

All in all this should be a more interesting update than most for this mod.
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KillzEmAllGod

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Re: Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods (0.42.06) - Revision 5a
« Reply #184 on: June 28, 2016, 06:33:21 am »

Oh god the combat its just far more brutal mainly because of the damage through the armor... had an Adamant lion inflict a a lot of wounds before making the dwarf give into pain then breaking the Iron great helm the dwarf was wearing only for it to have to keep destroying the mail bevor. It Said the dwarf bleed to death while the Adamant lion was shaking its head around.

Just the more I read it the more bloody the fight was just seemed so real with all that happened.
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KillzEmAllGod

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Re: Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods (0.42.06) - Revision 5a
« Reply #185 on: June 28, 2016, 11:34:15 pm »

I do hope my changes to armor materials does not end up flaking out the equipment breakage, and might have to counteract the clothing change for the cloth armor.
Looks like you just need to play around in arena because they seem to be wearing the armor correctly in adventure mode, so that just means pain and materials might need a bit of adjusting.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Grimlocke

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Re: Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods (0.42.06) - Revision 5a
« Reply #186 on: June 30, 2016, 04:08:00 am »

The update seems to have caused some... balance issues. Peasant punches and melee strikes from wooden crossbows are suddenly able to break joints through armor, which is kind of rubbish. Cloth armor also seems to have been nerfed in some unspecified way which is definitely not something I want.

Equipment breakage seems sensible for the most part, though in the case of weapons its kind of weirdly inconsistent, daggers seem to break way quicker than spears for instance. Possibly the damage gets scaled with item volume which?

Bites also seem to magically translate through armor, with bites somehow still 'latching on' even when the it glances off. I'm pretty sure that wasn't always the case.

@KillzEmAllGod: Heheh, ouch. I'm not entirely sure what an Adamant Lion is but it sounds vicious enough that it should be able to do that to a less well trained dwarf.

I can't help but notice a 'pig tail partial plate leg harness' though... I don't recall that being a thing before. Was that entity generated armor or did you make that in fortress mode?
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KillzEmAllGod

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Re: Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods (0.42.06) - Revision 5a
« Reply #187 on: July 01, 2016, 01:41:33 am »

Pretty sure that was generated, I wouldn't be worried about that too much.
Sounds like you a fair bit of work to do with balancing melee if that even can be done given that wood sounds overpowered, seemed like it would be a good change for ballistas given that they were rather worthless. 
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wickys

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Re: Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods (0.42.06) - Revision 5a
« Reply #188 on: July 02, 2016, 08:40:20 pm »

What's better? This mod or Stal's Armoury Pack. Just looking for the best and realistic option there is, along with a vast assortment of different clothes,armours and weapons
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Grimlocke

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Re: Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods (0.42.06) - Revision 5a
« Reply #189 on: July 03, 2016, 06:24:33 pm »

Having not player with Stal's mod and possibly being a bit biased, I can't say all that much  :P

Stal's mod does seem to have a better collection of clothes. I have been a bit stuck on clothes since medieval fashion got... really prolific around the period both of these mods are set in (1350-1450-ish). Not kidding, just look up '15th century Burgundian Fashion'. Styles changed every few years and each place of any significance had its own signature styles, which were also marketed as such and sold all over Europe.

That and the plethora of clothing dyes available at the time make for lots of clothing pieces, and since DF has no fashion sense whatsoever or even selects based on gender, it would result in Medieval Fashion Crime Simulator.

...

That all said, the clothes in this mod are just the stock clothes with a added surcoats and tabards. Its really mostly military stuff. Stal probably has me beat there. I do seem to have more armor pieces and made some more fundamental changes to combat, but quantity is not quality of course. Someone who has tried both would know more, or if not you can always just gab both and see which suits you best.

Stal's mod seems to be in need of some updating, though not much of the weapons and armor stuff changed since version 40.xx so it might still work alright.
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wickys

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Re: Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods (0.42.06) - Revision 5a
« Reply #190 on: July 05, 2016, 12:07:52 pm »

Somehow my worlds don't contain any iron anymore. No iron ores anywhere. I checked with prospect all. Did I fuck up installation?

I'm also using modest mod and blackpowder mod

Why are you deleting reactions for pig iron and steel making?

I don't understand what is happening in the raws for metallurgy. You remove brass,bronze,bismuth bronze, pig iron and steel making for some reason?

Did you remove the iron ore generations too?
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 02:00:03 pm by wickys »
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Grimlocke

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Re: Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods (0.42.06) - Revision 5a
« Reply #191 on: July 07, 2016, 11:28:08 am »

The 'no iron ores' is probably because I had to get rid of the metal ore tag in iron ores, and the utility doesn't know how to handle that.

It still works as ore but gets sorted under 'economic rock'. I had to remove the metal ore tag as it quite annoyingly generates a smelter reaction, which the metallurgy mod is there to replace.

All unmodified metal reactions such as bronze, pewter, etc are still in reaction_smelter, iron and steel making is modified to make historic standards.

Keep in mind, the metallurgy part is optional. If you just want the weapons, armor and combat mod you can leave it out.

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Thuellai

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Re: Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods (0.42.06) - Revision 5a
« Reply #192 on: July 07, 2016, 12:24:53 pm »

I'll give you silver, but bronze was still a functional and viable weapons material into the medieval age.  Its falling out of use was more about availability - once iron working was easy and common, bronze was less needed and unnecessarily expensive since it required native access to both copper and tin.  It wasn't that bronze was no longer useful in that role, it just didn't compete with widespread access to iron as metallurgy advanced and made iron easier to smelt.  Plus, both copper and tin had other uses that became more attractive once bronze was no longer the best metal for those uses.  I think bronze should probably still be allowed for weapons and armor.
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Grimlocke

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Re: Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods (0.42.06) - Revision 5a
« Reply #193 on: July 08, 2016, 02:57:54 pm »

By the late middle ages the mod is set in, bronze seems to have been entirely relegated to tools, statues and other non-military stuff. I at least couldn't find any finds of weapons or armor made of bronze from 1400-1500.

Its easy enough to add back in, I mostly took it out because 'moderation' is not really the game's dictionary and it ends up with making loads and loads of bronze items everywhere in adventurer mode which just doesn't feel fitting for the time period.
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wickys

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Re: Grimlocke's History & Realism Mods (0.42.06) - Revision 5a
« Reply #194 on: July 08, 2016, 07:43:00 pm »

With all the new armours and weird names, what is the maximum combination of stuff I can put on a soldier dwarf?

Is a shirt, gambeson, mail coat, coat of plates, tabard and cloak maximum for armor and most protective? Will it even work? I can't tell.
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