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[Grimlocke]

I need to write up a proper info sheet for that, but in general you can wear together what you could wear together in real life.

For the body I used four layers so for instance you can wear a shirt (Under), aketon (Over), mail coat (Armor) and brigandine (Cover).

A gambeson is a lot thicker, and will take up the Over and Armor layer.

Full plate armor is the strongest single piece of armor, but too tightly fitted to be worn with mail, covering both the Armor and Cover layer.

Mail coat, longsleeve mail coat and mail shirt al behave the same layer wise, they just cover more or less bodyparts and costs more or less metal.

Brigandines, coats of plates and partial plate mail also only use the Cover layer, coats of plates are thicker but more expensive, partial plate is thicker yet but does not fully cover the body (needing to be worn with a mail coat).


The partial limb armor can also be worn over padded armor, the full plate version only with gloves and shoes.


Both kettle helmets and both sallets can be worn with a bevor (plate armor covering the neck and lower part of the face), great helms can be worn with a mail coif and mailed bascinet as well. Keep in mind that of these, only the great helmets fully cover the head, and those are not a thick as the other helmets.

Armets and hounskulls are both too large and tightly fitted to be worn with anything else, but offer good thickness and full coverage.

...

Sooo the simplest set would probably be: Aketon + Plate armor (body), Armet (head), gloves + plate arm harness (arms), shoes + plate leg harness (legs). Keep in mind there are no more 'armor pants', since those are silly and caused some layering issues.

But there are trade-offs to each piece. Some cannot be worn with others, other are simply a lot cheaper to make (brigandines cost half of a plate cuirass).

[wickys]

Brigandines, coats of plates and partial plate mail also only use the Cover layer, coats of plates are thicker but more expensive, partial plate is thicker yet but does not fully cover the body (needing to be worn with a mail coat).

So partial plate plus mail coat is better?

Assume I have an infinite amount of steel and leather and cloth. Which actual entire suit of armor down to the loincloth and socks would give me the 100% BEST armor.

[Grimlocke]

Honestly I'm kind of hoping there isn't one. This mods central concept is to emulate reality as much as possible, and reality has no 'absolute best'.


If you have plenty of metal to spare, go with full plate or partial plate + mail. Full plate is more consistent, but partial has more layers and a wounded soldier might have more luck surviving after being wounded. RNG and skill difference make the equipment difference pretty unimportant. In any case, do NOT leave out cloth armor (aketon, padded coif, etc) as they are an important barrier against blunt damage.

Do not worry too much about loincloths, shirts and cloaks. Their protection value is negligible. I did add some extra thickness to gloves, shoes and possibly socks (don't quite remember).


Having a single OP equipment set to spam to victory has honestly never been very interesting to me. Having to make careful considerations, weighing cost and benefit, and finding out the results in terms of bodycount has always been much more Fun in my opinion!

[DaSwayza]

hey so I saw this mod in Masterwork 43.03, so with what release is this compatible? How would I go about adding something like Wanderer's Friend to this mod? because if I have to choose, yours wins

[Grimlocke]

I'm glad you like the mod! It should be compatible with 43.04 (tested) and probably also 43.05, there's some behaviors I'm not particularly happy about but those also happen in the vanilla game.

Did a bit of rooting around in the masterwork raws, the Masterwork version of this mod seems to have been pretty well tailored to get along with everything else.

Items overlapping with other mods and vanilla stuff seem to have been culled, though the ones that replace them stick to the same balancing principles as the non-MW of this mod so they should not feel all weirdly out of place.

If you want to use the standalone of the Arms & Armor mod with the Masterwork version of Wanderer's friend (I can't find a recent standalone version of it?), then it should be a matter of copying both over to a vanilla DF game, and going through the reaction raws making sure the item references such as ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_BREASTPLATE match up with something in item_weapons, item_armor or item_tools (or any other item files). You will probably also want to modify/add to the item production and breakdown reactions to match the Arms & Armor item. Right now all the wanderer's reaction just point to vanilla items.

The metallurgy module should be compatible, since that still uses the same material tokens that Wanderer's refers to.

Also the history nut in me is insisting I add that forging plate armor with nothing but some rocks and sticks is not realistic or historically accurate 

[Urist Tilaturist]

How is the progress on smelting metals other than iron?

[Grimlocke]

Its mostly stuck in research phase, and me trying to figure out how to expand on the metallurgy mod as a whole.

Research-wise, accurate information of medieval non-ferric metallurgy is kind of limited. There is references to it being smelted here and there, but often little details on how exactly they went about it.

The other part is that for doing some of the other things I want in the metallurgy mod (replacing the forging mechanics mostly, by replacing it with a number of tech levels for armor and weapon productions, maybe with tempering and variation in item quality), I need to use DFhack. How exactly I go about all that influences how I go about the non-ferric metals.

[pikachu17]

PTW

[DaSwayza]

So another quick question: How are civilians  supposed to arm themselves with those daggers? Because when I make them, they just sit in a stockpile, and my civies run around knife-less

[Grimlocke]

It needs to be a tool, not a weapon, with these tags: [TOOL_USE:MEAT_SLICING] [TOOL_USE:MEAT_CARVING] [TOOL_USE:MEAT_BONING]

Toady apparently didn't feel like using a separate tag for this, so they will also show up in night creature caves and such. You don't need to actually define the material tag as weapon metal, if you only use a wood material tag then they will be generated with wood. You can make cudgels and such.

Keep in mind though that these are only placed entity generated characters, you'll mostly run into them in adventure mode. There's no solution for civilian weapons in fortress mode other than the clumsy put-everyone-in-squads thing, where again you can't assign tools as items either.

I also recently found out for whatever reason tool-type weapons wear out significantly faster. I broke a minecart over someone's head which was fun and all, but bonking someone in armor with a cudgel just broke my cudgel =/

I'd really wish toady would remove the distinction between tools and weapons though, right now tools have some neat functionality which weapons could really use as well (like the civilian placement and better material definitions). But oh well, this is what we have, use it as you will.

[123nick]

It needs to be a tool, not a weapon, with these tags: [TOOL_USE:MEAT_SLICING] [TOOL_USE:MEAT_CARVING] [TOOL_USE:MEAT_BONING]

Toady apparently didn't feel like using a separate tag for this, so they will also show up in night creature caves and such. You don't need to actually define the material tag as weapon metal, if you only use a wood material tag then they will be generated with wood. You can make cudgels and such.

Keep in mind though that these are only placed entity generated characters, you'll mostly run into them in adventure mode. There's no solution for civilian weapons in fortress mode other than the clumsy put-everyone-in-squads thing, where again you can't assign tools as items either.

I also recently found out for whatever reason tool-type weapons wear out significantly faster. I broke a minecart over someone's head which was fun and all, but bonking someone in armor with a cudgel just broke my cudgel =/

I'd really wish toady would remove the distinction between tools and weapons though, right now tools have some neat functionality which weapons could really use as well (like the civilian placement and better material definitions). But oh well, this is what we have, use it as you will.

honestly, a cudgel breaking after hitting someone with it seems a bit relastic, no? its just a glorified wooden stick.

[Grimlocke]

Its not even that glorified

But wooden sticks shouldn't be underestimated, a wooden flail can give even someone in full armor severe headache.

Also the breaking also happens with metal weapons, sadly enough.

[DaSwayza]

Btw how has the new update of force translating through armor effect your mod? Does padding from different layers help cushion blows?

[Grimlocke]

The padding still works, but the joints and such needed some adjustments here and there to make them not silly levels of weak.

Ill put up the details of that once I release the update for this mod, which is mostly done safe for some info sheets I'm (finally) getting around to.

[Taffer]

Minor fix to the body_default file that I provided: search for left foot:right feet, and replace it with left foot:left feet. (2 times).