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[Grimlocke]

Guud guud, glad your enjoying it!

[vixeyrose]

When I try to make a spear at the forge. I get two choices that both say "iron spear". Can you change it so it says long, short, bear, etc. (whatever the civ can forge) under the workshop menu?

Other then that, enjoying the mod. Lost two recruits to a trap room. Wooden Spears to the neck causing an open artery. They didn't make it across the hall before falling.

[Grimlocke]

Hehehe, yeah you will want to give them padded armor at least before having them train in the danger room. Especially if you use non-training wooden spears which still have an edge.

I have been planning on changing those weapon names due to that borked forge display. It doesn't display adjectives so 'long steel spear' and 'short steel spear' turn into 'steel spear'. I will be correcting those to 'steel longspear' and such.

[vixeyrose]

Good to know... As far as the training casualties, they had full boiled with leather cloaks and a copper mail bevor. I lost a total of 3 military from throat cuts before shutting it down. I was using wooden training spears in a spike trap that was triggered with a pressure plate. Not a complaint or anything, just an observation. Probly best anyhow for realism. Danger rooms may be a time saver and may also be considered an exploit.

[StagnantSoul]

Hoping to get back into using this soon, loved it when I did, especially since I knew most of the stuff and what they did, and therefore how weird my soldiers looked.

[Grimlocke]

Ah, the leather armors do not give 100% coverage, much like the historic ones which were basically just breastplates, bracers, etc that were worn over mail armor. As far as we know at least... historic evidence for boiled leather armor is kind of sketchy as it mostly comes from descriptions, receipts and depictions.

Bevors should cover the throat, but due to limitations with the game they only cover part of the head. Sadly there is nothing I could do about that so right now body armor defends the throat. With regular combat you might be able to get away with using only leather, but the danger room will hit your dwarves lots and lots of times so if there is any chance at all of something bypassing armor and hitting the throat, it eventually will.

Mind you, I haven't actually tested danger rooms in the last version. It could be that something about the 43.05 changes made training spear traps considerably more dangerous. Hmm, maybe ill subject some of my own dwarves and see what happens. For uh... science! yes.

[KillzEmAllGod]

How far off a 43.05 release?

[Grimlocke]

I've been having a fight with the weapon/armor materials which... gave me kind of a partial victory?

I didn't like how steel was able to cut through iron like it was stale bread, and the same for crucible steel vs regular steel. I've mitigated that with each step up in metal performs better, but doesn't outright render lower quality armor useless. I did it by setting the shear yield on all of the materials to the same, to 450000. Even just setting it to 450001 had the lower grade metal turn to 'simulate gingerbread' mode.

One issue is, weapon quality no longer matters at all for armored fighting. I currently can't see any way to fix that, not without turning to DFhack which I plan to save for Future Plans.

Anyhow, other changes are there being actual documentation for the weapons/armor, some minor edits to the metallurgy and a weapon re-balance which adds a bit more variance to each individual weapon. I have also bumped out some of the more anachronistic items (saved a last version of them in a legacy file for those who don't agree). I also gave some 'civilian' armor to the goblins, which will have their poorer cannon fodder showing up with munitions grade armor. Danger rooms still worked with full-coverage metal armor, getting coverage mixed up might be less common with the armor layering chart I made.

Should be done once I give everything a once-over and hunt down and remove any of my experimental edits. I won't promise an exact time, but should be soon-ish.

[KillzEmAllGod]

Was the 'civilian' armor even needed after the fix?

Though the weapon quality sounds like a bug or unintended side effect from the armor changes.

Looking forward to it, seems like it was a lot of work testing all the changes.

[Grimlocke]

I moved the civilian armor form 'fix' to 'additional feature'

While not essential, it does help with having even the poor-as-dirt goblins show up with at least some sort of armor, which roughly reflects how things were in the 15th century. At that point in time armor had become cheap and widespread enough that not all that many soldiers showed up to a battle without at least some hastily churned out armor or older secondhand kit.

I'll probably wrap up and a do a release today or tomorrow, without an optional, arms & armor themed entity I was going to include, which fell victim to some feature creep and borky bodypart relation mechanics (they just plainly don't work in most cases, not even some of the vanilla implementations...)

[Grimlocke]

Bump of Updating!

Download and changelist on the main post as usual, where I will run out of character eventually, but not yet.

Feedback as always is highly appreciated be it about things I messed up, could add, or whatever else may be on your mind!

[Urist Tilaturist]

A few questions, coming back to this after a long absence:

How good are arrows at piercing armour? Longbow arrows could pierce maille and gambeson, but not plate (see this video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMvz-z1SPLQ). Archers defeated knights by killing their horses and creating a pile-up as horses tripped over each other.

You said earlier that gambesons counted as clothing and armour, but they were often worn under maille and plate, so it should be fairly easy for dwarves to wear them under armour.
Are overheating and fatigue implemented? These would be serious problems in heavy armour in hot weather.

Finally, if the technology cutoff is the 15th century, are primitive firearms in the mod? Hand cannons and bombards existed by this point. They should have a small chance of exploding, of course, so dwarves can die like James II of Scotland.

[Taffer]

Thank you kindly for the update! I'll look into things more closely soon. Do you mind if I merge the new balance changes back into DF Revised? Does the "iron vs adamantine" balance pass only make sense in context of your metallurgy module, or is some of that easily applied back to "vanilla" DF?  I'd give credit and really don't intend to "steal anybody's thunder".

Thank you updating a fantastic mod, in any case.

[Grimlocke]

@Urist: Mail armor will be hurt by arrows, though mostly by blunt damage. Right now making mail easier to pierce will make it pretty ineffective as armor which isn't really accurate to how it was either.

Bolts and arrows have a chance of doing blunt damage to plate armor as well, as long as your using either the bodkin arrows or non-broadhead bolts.

Handheld firearms, overheating, fatigue and movement impairment of armor and sight/breathing impairment of helmets will depend on DFhack support. None of these are really viable with regular raw modding, so I'm hoping DFhack support for 43.05 will be available... sooner rather than later. Once that is there, these should be doable enough.

Bombards and cannons are not going to happen until toady implements more advanced artillery. Random exploding of poorly made guns sounds fun though, poor James, he was doing so well until he bought a crappy cannon and had to stand near it.


@Taffer: Your free to any thunder that strikes your fancy

However, most of the changes will be fairly specific to this mod. The material changes depend on ALL the non-adamantine metals having same shear yields which is not exactly the case in the vanilla game. You would have to copy over the whole weapon-metals portion, which would in turn not play well with the vanilla weapons/armor.

I do want to make make this mod play nicely with your DF Revised mod as its got some pretty cool changes in there.

[Taffer]

I'm not certain if installation using only "1 - Arms and Armor" is supported, but doing so results in a "NATIVE_ALUMINUM: Smelt Ore Not Found, Token - ALUMINUM" error, FYI.

@Taffer: Your free to any thunder that strikes your fancy

However, most of the changes will be fairly specific to this mod. The material changes depend on ALL the non-adamantine metals having same shear yields which is not exactly the case in the vanilla game. You would have to copy over the whole weapon-metals portion, which would in turn not play well with the vanilla weapons/armor.

I do want to make make this mod play nicely with your DF Revised mod as its got some pretty cool changes in there.

What do you make of your new material_template_default.txt and body_default.txt changes for Revised? At a glance the changes to things like hair would probably translate well, but perhaps I'll need to try to test things. I'm also intrigued by the idea of removing "armor pants" and preventing armor worn over armor, but I'm not sure that I understand all the components sufficiently to do that right now.