Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 635 636 [637] 638 639 ... 1389

Author Topic: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée  (Read 855185 times)

nenjin

  • Bay Watcher
  • WHERE'S YOUR MOTIVATION!?!?
    • View Profile
Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9540 on: January 04, 2016, 02:33:32 pm »

In lieu of ever getting the police to act properly, yes, I want them to act consistently. I'd rather have no one getting justice rather than only some people; that'll foment social change and changes in policing faster than this double-standard bullshit where no matter which way you slice it, the white militia gets what it wants. Kill them? They're martyrs. Don't do anything? You've legitimized their special place in American politics where they can break the law, flagrantly, and they don't get treated the same.

The only option is for the police to march in there and do their jobs. If the militia shoots, they're clearly in the wrong. If they don't, they get put in cuffs like they deserve and we all get to congratulate the police on both doing their job professional and not making distinctions between what kinds of criminals they have to deal with.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 02:35:05 pm by nenjin »
Logged
Quote from: Rumi
Yesterday I was clever, so I wanted to change the world. Today I am wise, and so I am changing myself.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?

RedKing

  • Bay Watcher
  • hoo hoo motherfucker
    • View Profile
Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9541 on: January 04, 2016, 02:33:47 pm »

I don't know that it's "fear of making it worse" as much as "fear of 150 gun nuts". The local sheriff's department is definitely not staffed or equipped to respond to something like that. According to their website, they have a sheriff and five deputies. The county has a population of 7700. This is Andy Griffith/Barney Fife territory (not that I'm casting any aspersions on their competence).

@Sheb/Helgo: Well, that would at least be a start. Justice needs to be fair first, and merciful second. Plus, I don't like the implications of allowing armed paramilitaries to escape consequences.
Logged

Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
Quote from: Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.

Willfor

  • Bay Watcher
  • The great magmaman adventurer. I do it for hugs.
    • View Profile
Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9542 on: January 04, 2016, 02:34:43 pm »

We would like the police to start BEING consistent, and actually pick an option that they will apply to everyone equally instead of hiding behind hate. We are angry at the police.
Logged
In the wells of livestock vans with shells and garden sands /
Iron mixed with oxygen as per the laws of chemistry and chance /
A shape was roughly human, it was only roughly human /
Apparition eyes / Apparition eyes / Knock, apparition, knock / Eyes, apparition eyes /

MaximumZero

  • Bay Watcher
  • Stare into the abyss.
    • View Profile
Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9543 on: January 04, 2016, 02:35:13 pm »

They could always call in para-military types and blame them when things inevitably go horribly wrong.
Logged
  
Holy crap, why did I not start watching One Punch Man earlier? This is the best thing.
probably figured an autobiography wouldn't be interesting

Rolan7

  • Bay Watcher
  • they/them
    • View Profile
Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9544 on: January 04, 2016, 02:36:58 pm »

It sounds like you guys would rather have the police act consistently than have the police act properly. Or, putting it the other way around: Since people you care about are being treated unjustly, you feel those nutcases shouldn't be treated right either.

At least that's the vibe I'm getting off of you guys.
Pointing out a double standard is different from suggesting that the police should kill'em all.  I assume most people in this thread would prefer that the police show more restraint when trying to arrest criminals...  Like the restraint they're showing here, with an armed militia.

I don't agree, but they're not saying what you're saying they're saying, know what I'm saying?
Logged

RedKing

  • Bay Watcher
  • hoo hoo motherfucker
    • View Profile
Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9545 on: January 04, 2016, 02:37:53 pm »

Meh, to read the militia discussions, they've already decided that anyone from the militias who opens fire first is actually a secret government agent provacateur. Must be nice to absolve yourself of guilt pre-emptively before the shit hits the fan.
Logged

Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
Quote from: Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.

MaximumZero

  • Bay Watcher
  • Stare into the abyss.
    • View Profile
Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9546 on: January 04, 2016, 02:40:12 pm »

This is the problem with wackos: they're always right, no matter how hard they have to spin things into fantasy-land to be right.
Logged
  
Holy crap, why did I not start watching One Punch Man earlier? This is the best thing.
probably figured an autobiography wouldn't be interesting

WealthyRadish

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9547 on: January 04, 2016, 02:45:54 pm »

Since we're back on the double standard thing

I'm not calling for violence, I'm just saying that this logic only holds up when it's either liberal or non-white by nature.

I think there's a regional aspect some people are missing, by judging this situation with the same standards as police brutality and large protests in New York. The demographics in the mountain states and pacific northwest are very different from the rest of the country, and we have both

1) an abundance of right wing nutters who join "militias" like the one here, and apparently make national news
2) an incredibly small relative black population, with little evidence (that I've seen) of systemic racial discrimination in the justice system, except possibly against the much larger hispanic populations

So the whole leftist minority victim thing (while it may be valid elsewhere, or even in some the larger cities in this region) isn't exactly relevant in, say, Oregon, when its staggering 1.8% black population doesn't exactly invoke comparisons to Ferguson and other cases of police racial violence. I grew up in a city with 150,000 people (a verdant metropolis), and we have like 0-2 murders a year.

If it's the federal response that you're more concerned about, I don't see much evidence that they're handling this with a bias that validates a comparison the the Occupy protests and events like Ferguson. It's a bunch of hicks in the middle of nowhere, Burns has a population of 2,806. If the police are taking it slow, it may be because the department consists of 3 cops (shared with another town) and an office assistant.
Logged

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9548 on: January 04, 2016, 02:52:29 pm »

Spoiler: LOOOOONG REPLY (click to show/hide)

nenjin

  • Bay Watcher
  • WHERE'S YOUR MOTIVATION!?!?
    • View Profile
Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9549 on: January 04, 2016, 02:53:43 pm »

I don't know that it's "fear of making it worse" as much as "fear of 150 gun nuts". The local sheriff's department is definitely not staffed or equipped to respond to something like that. According to their website, they have a sheriff and five deputies. The county has a population of 7700. This is Andy Griffith/Barney Fife territory (not that I'm casting any aspersions on their competence).

@Sheb/Helgo: Well, that would at least be a start. Justice needs to be fair first, and merciful second. Plus, I don't like the implications of allowing armed paramilitaries to escape consequences.

Can you honestly imagination another law enforcement situation where guys with guns are holding a place for days and they DON'T call in support from every outlying county?
Logged
Quote from: Rumi
Yesterday I was clever, so I wanted to change the world. Today I am wise, and so I am changing myself.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?

Sheb

  • Bay Watcher
  • You Are An Avatar
    • View Profile
Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9550 on: January 04, 2016, 02:55:18 pm »

Except, who's saying theu're getting their way? Barricading and waiting for them to step out of their freezing cabin to get them definitely is the good way. I'm betting they'll spend quite some time behind bar after this.
Logged

Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

Ispil

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9551 on: January 04, 2016, 02:57:17 pm »

I mean, it's a pretty trivial solution- starve them out. Not hard, no bullets fired. Simple as that.
Logged
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it."- Voltaire

I transcribe things, too.

Radio Controlled

  • Bay Watcher
  • Morals? Ethics? Conscience? HA!
    • View Profile
Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9552 on: January 04, 2016, 02:58:32 pm »

It'd be interesting if they just put some barbed wire around their little cottage, prevent people from leaving or entering, cut communications as well as they can, and then just starve them out.  And maybe douse the entire building in tear gas 24/7. Just to see what'd happen really.

Edit: Dang ninja's!
Logged


Einsteinian Roulette Wiki
Quote from: you know who you are
21:26   <XYZ>: I know nothing about this, but I have strong opinions about it.
Fucking hell, you guys are worse than the demons.

RedKing

  • Bay Watcher
  • hoo hoo motherfucker
    • View Profile
Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9553 on: January 04, 2016, 03:01:51 pm »

I don't know that it's "fear of making it worse" as much as "fear of 150 gun nuts". The local sheriff's department is definitely not staffed or equipped to respond to something like that. According to their website, they have a sheriff and five deputies. The county has a population of 7700. This is Andy Griffith/Barney Fife territory (not that I'm casting any aspersions on their competence).

@Sheb/Helgo: Well, that would at least be a start. Justice needs to be fair first, and merciful second. Plus, I don't like the implications of allowing armed paramilitaries to escape consequences.

Can you honestly imagination another law enforcement situation where guys with guns are holding a place for days and they DON'T call in support from every outlying county?
Well, they called in the Feds (appropriate, as it's a Federal facility) and the FBI has lead jurisdiction from here on out (now if it turns out those weapons were obtained illegally, and/or they have explosives, then BATF gets a bite of the jurisdiction pie as well).

But yeah...if these were, say, homegrown Islamic radicals then most of the right-wing would be calling for tactical nukes by now. Especially given that there's no hostages to worry about.


As to the "starve them out" scenario, that may be what triggers the shit hitting the fan. For now, they appear to have some of the militia in the building and some down in the town getting supplies and ferrying them out to the building (which is ~30 miles outside of town, IIRC). If they bar those supplies from entering that may set up the armed confrontation. And then they have to worry about the militia guys still in the town and what actions they might take.



EDIT: The White House is calling it a "local law enforcement matter" (which is a bullshit punt) and no law enforcement (local or otherwise) are at the scene.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 03:07:20 pm by RedKing »
Logged

Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
Quote from: Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.

nenjin

  • Bay Watcher
  • WHERE'S YOUR MOTIVATION!?!?
    • View Profile
Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9554 on: January 04, 2016, 03:03:41 pm »

The fact they're letting people operating with the militia to move freely around town and support them is just another example of "This is being treated differently than other crimes that look the same." Christ you'd think after a day they'd at least call in enough officers to secure the scene.

Quote
EDIT: The White House is calling it a "local law enforcement matter" (which is a bullshit punt) and no law enforcement (local or otherwise) are at the scene.

Especially when they're on federal property and the entire thing is a direct challenge to the Fed. I get why Obama doesn't want to make an example out of them, but honestly, this is not a place where the federal government should act weak and just shrug when its citizens are posing a direct, armed challenge to its authority.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 03:13:14 pm by nenjin »
Logged
Quote from: Rumi
Yesterday I was clever, so I wanted to change the world. Today I am wise, and so I am changing myself.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Pages: 1 ... 635 636 [637] 638 639 ... 1389