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Author Topic: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée  (Read 927878 times)

WealthyRadish

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9150 on: January 04, 2016, 02:45:54 pm »

Since we're back on the double standard thing

I'm not calling for violence, I'm just saying that this logic only holds up when it's either liberal or non-white by nature.

I think there's a regional aspect some people are missing, by judging this situation with the same standards as police brutality and large protests in New York. The demographics in the mountain states and pacific northwest are very different from the rest of the country, and we have both

1) an abundance of right wing nutters who join "militias" like the one here, and apparently make national news
2) an incredibly small relative black population, with little evidence (that I've seen) of systemic racial discrimination in the justice system, except possibly against the much larger hispanic populations

So the whole leftist minority victim thing (while it may be valid elsewhere, or even in some the larger cities in this region) isn't exactly relevant in, say, Oregon, when its staggering 1.8% black population doesn't exactly invoke comparisons to Ferguson and other cases of police racial violence. I grew up in a city with 150,000 people (a verdant metropolis), and we have like 0-2 murders a year.

If it's the federal response that you're more concerned about, I don't see much evidence that they're handling this with a bias that validates a comparison the the Occupy protests and events like Ferguson. It's a bunch of hicks in the middle of nowhere, Burns has a population of 2,806. If the police are taking it slow, it may be because the department consists of 3 cops (shared with another town) and an office assistant.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9151 on: January 04, 2016, 02:52:29 pm »

Spoiler: LOOOOONG REPLY (click to show/hide)

nenjin

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9152 on: January 04, 2016, 02:53:43 pm »

I don't know that it's "fear of making it worse" as much as "fear of 150 gun nuts". The local sheriff's department is definitely not staffed or equipped to respond to something like that. According to their website, they have a sheriff and five deputies. The county has a population of 7700. This is Andy Griffith/Barney Fife territory (not that I'm casting any aspersions on their competence).

@Sheb/Helgo: Well, that would at least be a start. Justice needs to be fair first, and merciful second. Plus, I don't like the implications of allowing armed paramilitaries to escape consequences.

Can you honestly imagination another law enforcement situation where guys with guns are holding a place for days and they DON'T call in support from every outlying county?
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Sheb

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9153 on: January 04, 2016, 02:55:18 pm »

Except, who's saying theu're getting their way? Barricading and waiting for them to step out of their freezing cabin to get them definitely is the good way. I'm betting they'll spend quite some time behind bar after this.
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Radio Controlled

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9154 on: January 04, 2016, 02:58:32 pm »

It'd be interesting if they just put some barbed wire around their little cottage, prevent people from leaving or entering, cut communications as well as they can, and then just starve them out.  And maybe douse the entire building in tear gas 24/7. Just to see what'd happen really.

Edit: Dang ninja's!
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RedKing

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9155 on: January 04, 2016, 03:01:51 pm »

I don't know that it's "fear of making it worse" as much as "fear of 150 gun nuts". The local sheriff's department is definitely not staffed or equipped to respond to something like that. According to their website, they have a sheriff and five deputies. The county has a population of 7700. This is Andy Griffith/Barney Fife territory (not that I'm casting any aspersions on their competence).

@Sheb/Helgo: Well, that would at least be a start. Justice needs to be fair first, and merciful second. Plus, I don't like the implications of allowing armed paramilitaries to escape consequences.

Can you honestly imagination another law enforcement situation where guys with guns are holding a place for days and they DON'T call in support from every outlying county?
Well, they called in the Feds (appropriate, as it's a Federal facility) and the FBI has lead jurisdiction from here on out (now if it turns out those weapons were obtained illegally, and/or they have explosives, then BATF gets a bite of the jurisdiction pie as well).

But yeah...if these were, say, homegrown Islamic radicals then most of the right-wing would be calling for tactical nukes by now. Especially given that there's no hostages to worry about.


As to the "starve them out" scenario, that may be what triggers the shit hitting the fan. For now, they appear to have some of the militia in the building and some down in the town getting supplies and ferrying them out to the building (which is ~30 miles outside of town, IIRC). If they bar those supplies from entering that may set up the armed confrontation. And then they have to worry about the militia guys still in the town and what actions they might take.



EDIT: The White House is calling it a "local law enforcement matter" (which is a bullshit punt) and no law enforcement (local or otherwise) are at the scene.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 03:07:20 pm by RedKing »
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nenjin

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9156 on: January 04, 2016, 03:03:41 pm »

The fact they're letting people operating with the militia to move freely around town and support them is just another example of "This is being treated differently than other crimes that look the same." Christ you'd think after a day they'd at least call in enough officers to secure the scene.

Quote
EDIT: The White House is calling it a "local law enforcement matter" (which is a bullshit punt) and no law enforcement (local or otherwise) are at the scene.

Especially when they're on federal property and the entire thing is a direct challenge to the Fed. I get why Obama doesn't want to make an example out of them, but honestly, this is not a place where the federal government should act weak and just shrug when its citizens are posing a direct, armed challenge to its authority.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 03:13:14 pm by nenjin »
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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9157 on: January 04, 2016, 03:05:31 pm »

If those guys claim to be a foreign nation, then the feds can just claim they're reinforcing border controls. Maybe get Trump to come build a wall around their shed.
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RedKing

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9158 on: January 04, 2016, 03:10:55 pm »

Tennessee state representative asks on Twitter how he can support YallQaeda.

Also, the militia has apparently provided a mailing address where supporters can send snacks, energy drinks, etc. My guess is that they'll complain that the tyrannical US Postal Service charges for their services too.



EDIT: Seeing the 150 number tossed around quite a bit, with other reports indicating only abut 20 at the building. Which would imply ~130 militia outside the grounds, probably in town. That's a security nightmare for LEOs, especially with such a small population.

Daily Beast is also reporting a rogues' gallery of known Islamophobes and anti-government extremists in attendance.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 03:18:35 pm by RedKing »
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mainiac

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9159 on: January 04, 2016, 04:14:32 pm »

It would be nice if congress could use this incident as an excuse to weaken mandatory sentencing laws.  Let these guys we a cause celebre for something useful.
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nenjin

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9160 on: January 04, 2016, 04:28:02 pm »

Can't imagine the outrage machine would handle that coincidence very well.
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mainiac

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9161 on: January 04, 2016, 04:49:22 pm »

Coincidence?  I'm saying it's a teachable moment thing.
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Powder Miner

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9162 on: January 04, 2016, 04:49:32 pm »

It blows my mind that so many people are openly advocating violence and death. Two wrongs don't make a right, folks, and shooting these guys up doesn't make anything better or solve any justice problems. It just ends up with more people dead. Do you all actually want that so badly you don't care about our justice system, you know, not killing its own people en masse?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 04:52:52 pm by Powder Miner »
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nenjin

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9163 on: January 04, 2016, 04:52:24 pm »

You could go back and read the thread.

Or I guess you can pile on with everyone else wringing their hands.

The cops need to go in and remove them. If some idiot redneck decides to open fire, that's his decision. But both the cops and the feds standing there doing nothing is not acceptable. It wouldn't be acceptable if they were brown and screaming about Allah, I don't know why it's acceptable here.

I don't want people to get shot. But I'm not going to shed tears over wing nuts who came out point blank and said "I'm ready to die before I voluntarily leave here" getting exactly what they're asking for.

It blows my mind you find armed American thugs of the worst kind holding the Fed at gun point ok. See what I did there?

Coincidence?  I'm saying it's a teachable moment thing.

I'll hand it to Bundy though. Choosing a closed down wildlife refuge almost no one cares about was pretty smart. No one was there, no one really cares about it and it still meets his requirement of attacking a government facility while letting him be a complete chicken shit about doing so. If this had been a post office or a National Guard recruitment center or some other more important federal facility, this probably would have played out different.

What I'm saying is I don't think anyone these days is very good about learning from such teachable moments.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 04:59:08 pm by nenjin »
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RedKing

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9164 on: January 04, 2016, 04:53:07 pm »

It would be nice if congress could use this incident as an excuse to weaken mandatory sentencing laws.  Let these guys we a cause celebre for something useful.
Not sure I see the connection, but ok...?

(I assume you're talking about the Hammondses, not the Bundy militia.)



It blows my mind how many people are suddenly peace, love and sunshine when it's white right-wingers in the crosshairs.

Do I *want* them dead? Nah, if they surrender now and are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, I'm cool with that.
Do I expect that to happen (either the surrender or the actual prosecution)? Nope.
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