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Author Topic: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée  (Read 843187 times)

RedKing

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9585 on: January 04, 2016, 05:55:23 pm »

There's no price to paid in blood for waiting this time around, the lack of split second decision pretty much means everything. If they do shoot down the militia folks, it must by definition be a premeditated kill... which one DOES see in the inner cities to an extent (and that of course is horrific and should not be)... but that doesn't actually change the current situation, which ought to be figured out on its own strategic merits rather than decided by what has gone on in other situations.
So if the Feds move in to arrest and shit hits the fan, you're already of the opinion that it's premeditated on the part of the Feds? Not an attack or a strawman, just trying to get clarification. Because I don't think that's what you're saying.
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Powder Miner

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9586 on: January 04, 2016, 05:57:27 pm »

Oh, no, if they move in to arrest and get shot at they're well within their rights to shoot back. My apologies, I was still of the impression you were pushing the cold blood thing. I'd rather things be timed in order so that noone gets shot, but shooting BACK is fine.
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nenjin

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9587 on: January 04, 2016, 05:57:47 pm »

In part because the Feds had to back down last time (the Cliven Bundy thing), which the militias counted as a "win".

I'd very much like to see them take an unequivocal "loss" on this one, and nip this shit in the bud.

Yea, another proud moment in the fight against domestic extremism. No one got killed so I guess it's a win in someone's book. But the image of white ranchers holding guns and screaming in the faces of police officers...and those officers just standing there taking it still sticks with me. I couldn't fathom another situation like that in almost any other circumstance. What I would normally love to see (police officers exercising maximum restraint) somehow becomes tainted because I believe the reason for showing that restraint isn't respect for the law or the love of human life. It's because politically they don't disagree with them or at least are unwilling to police "their own kind." How can you have any justice in this country when enforcement is so goddamn arbitrary. In almost all other instances of being within 500 feet of an officer who needs to deal with you, carrying a loaded weapon and/or being hostile is fucking death sentence.

There's no price to paid in blood for waiting this time around, the lack of split second decision pretty much means everything. If they do shoot down the militia folks, it must by definition be a premeditated kill... which one DOES see in the inner cities to an extent (and that of course is horrific and should not be)... but that doesn't actually change the current situation, which ought to be figured out on its own strategic merits rather than decided by what has gone on in other situations.

The strategy seems pretty straightforward to me. You tell them to put down their guns and peaceably disband and take them all into custody. They don't require special consideration unless they're actually ready to shoot at law enforcement officers. And the playbook for that situation is pretty clear cut already.

Put another way. Why do these guys deserve special treatment? Why are they not being treated, at a minimum, like your average everyday criminal. Forget armed vigilante, armed separatist movement, armed terrorist or any of the other more exotic labels that totally apply to them.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 06:05:43 pm by nenjin »
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Morrigi

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9588 on: January 04, 2016, 06:08:35 pm »

They're not being treated like common criminals because they aren't. They're much better armed and organized, and the police and Feds don't want to be involved in another bloodbath.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9589 on: January 04, 2016, 06:09:57 pm »

In fairness, there was a similar reaction to the police observation patrols done by the Black Panthers all the way back in the 60's. Even the most rabid cop isn't suicidal, multiple people with guns are a risk to tangle with no matter what.

But then again, maybe I'm wrong and trying to bring that back would just turn into a massacre immediately. There is a certain Khornate edge that modern cops have compared to their predecessors.
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RedKing

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9590 on: January 04, 2016, 06:14:36 pm »

COPS FOR THE COP THRONE
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wobbly

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9591 on: January 04, 2016, 06:29:13 pm »

This is what I love about American politics, much ideology & rhetoric, very little practicality. Seems to me they're handling the situation in a way that causes the minimum chance of a bloodbath & a shitfest (for once) and I have to read a whole heap of people calling for blood on principle. Is there a double standard? Of course? Is that shit? yes. No amount of killing crazy white right wing hicks is actually going to make people who don't care about black lives start caring.

Just siege them out. Minimize the collateral damage. Arrest them. Charge them with everything you can. It's actually how law enforcement is supposed to work. I've read a lot of people complaining that the situation is actually being handled the way it's meant to be.
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Egan_BW

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9592 on: January 04, 2016, 06:29:48 pm »

No, Khorne is the god of justice and honor. These cops are just filthy corpegod worshippers.
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Willfor

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9593 on: January 04, 2016, 06:58:03 pm »

Emotional responses make me feel angry because I am utterly removed from the situation and don't want to feel any empathy to it whatsoever.
Seems about right.
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wobbly

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9594 on: January 04, 2016, 07:03:41 pm »

Emotional responses make me feel angry because I am utterly removed from the situation and don't want to feel any empathy to it whatsoever.
Seems about right.

Hey you can read it how you want, though I suspect if you get the blood you want you'll enjoy the reality much less then the fantasy.
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Willfor

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9595 on: January 04, 2016, 07:10:12 pm »

Well, I've been among the posts calling out double standards rather than actual blood, and am far more interested in this being a good point of comparison to how minorities are treated in general. However, I also see the whole schtick of turning one's nose up at the whole idea that people might be angry as the same kind of inhuman (or rather, all-too-human) response that allowed racial biases to crop up amongst the colonially minded in the 18th and 19th centuries. "Oh, what is this anger emotion? Everyone would be better off not venting anything. Beep boop."
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In the wells of livestock vans with shells and garden sands /
Iron mixed with oxygen as per the laws of chemistry and chance /
A shape was roughly human, it was only roughly human /
Apparition eyes / Apparition eyes / Knock, apparition, knock / Eyes, apparition eyes /

Powder Miner

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9596 on: January 04, 2016, 07:12:16 pm »

If I am presented with an opinion I want to debate in a thread meant for debate I will debate it.
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SalmonGod

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9597 on: January 04, 2016, 07:13:12 pm »

Anyone remember Christopher Dorner?  Police were afraid of him, too.  So they avoided confrontation by burning him alive inside a building.

And I want to be absolutely clear that I do not want this situation to be handled violently. 

I can't speak for everyone else, but my message is "We can do the right thing here, so why can't we do it there?" 

My message is NOT "You did the bad thing there, so you should do it here, too."
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 07:20:58 pm by SalmonGod »
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RedKing

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9598 on: January 04, 2016, 07:18:54 pm »

This is what I love about American politics, much ideology & rhetoric, very little practicality. Seems to me they're handling the situation in a way that causes the minimum chance of a bloodbath & a shitfest (for once) and I have to read a whole heap of people calling for blood on principle. Is there a double standard? Of course? Is that shit? yes. No amount of killing crazy white right wing hicks is actually going to make people who don't care about black lives start caring.

Just siege them out. Minimize the collateral damage. Arrest them. Charge them with everything you can. It's actually how law enforcement is supposed to work. I've read a lot of people complaining that the situation is actually being handled the way it's meant to be.
Except that so far there's no siege. Or well, ANY kind of law enforcement response, other than the local sheriff basically warning people to stay clear and the county school system staying closed all week. And the FBI saying they're talking with local and state law enforcement to find a peaceful solution. So yay for talking, but where's the fucking response? If one of these yahoos gets in a snit and shoots a townsperson for being insufficently freedom-loving, you're going to see a whole hell of a lot more people complaining about the lack of a response.
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wobbly

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Re: Ted Cruz's Netflix and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9599 on: January 04, 2016, 07:19:27 pm »

Well, I've been among the posts calling out double standards rather than actual blood, and am far more interested in this being a good point of comparison to how minorities are treated in general. However, I also see the whole schtick of turning one's nose up at the whole idea that people might be angry as the same kind of inhuman (or rather, all-too-human) response that allowed racial biases to crop up amongst the colonially minded in the 18th and 19th centuries. "Oh, what is this anger emotion? Everyone would be better off not venting anything. Beep boop."

It's not the anger or the emotion that bothers me. Hey I've got plenty of raw disgust for both the militia involved & for some of the posts I've read above. It's the fact that I'm pretty sure some of the posters here would actually like to see this turn bloody. That they think a bloodbath here will actually solve the problems. A few posts here seem to hold an uncanny similarity to the attitudes of the idiots in the building with guns.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 07:21:06 pm by wobbly »
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