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Author Topic: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée  (Read 1453853 times)

Sheb

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #18915 on: June 04, 2016, 10:37:41 am »

You're probably right.
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Frumple

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #18916 on: June 04, 2016, 11:01:15 am »

Ok, let me rephrase it differently then. Can you sustain your claim that

Quote
The complexity of all this expands exponentially as more people get involved.

That seems counterintuitive to me. On the contrary, I'd expect economies of scale.
Well, the example he's using is the US, which is managing to by all appearances underperform* any number of other countries (like germany, or canada) to varying degrees despite having massively larger resources and body count to throw at it, and often a comparatively smaller problem (lower net migration, et al), if larger in the raw.

Interestingly, the numbers comparison between germany (the one with the next lowest raw immigration numbers, and who is roughly on par in regards to stuff like net migration and whatnot, iirc) and the US in regards to their governmental immigration services? Which is about what I'd expect you'd be looking at regarding efficiency. The USCIS employs about 19k (this is spread all the fuck over the world, though; that's split between 223 offices). The BAMF (which is a hell of an acronym), the german equivalent of it, employs 3.5k (split... between 22 branch offices? Can't read german, and it's annoying to find the numbers otherwise. Maybe one of our german forumgoers has a better idea?). Comparison of the amount of the population that equates to? .06% vs. .04%. Note that is the US is just a bit shy of four times germany's population, and has an immigrant population roughly in the same ballpark. Note that .06% is not four times .04%, and that 19k is only about 5 times that 3.5k. That seems pretty indicative of either dead on or fairly close economies of scale, not exponentially increasing ones. And quite possibly a notable amount of effiency, even -- the US is not 10 times the size of germany, it's 28 times the size of germany, which means if those BAMF office numbers are correct, the US is managing something like double the area coverage per office and barely budging by the metrics that seem particularly applicable. Only about matching in apparent throughput and whatnot, but still.

If anyone's curious about the budget numbers, the USCIS's was ~3.2b, and that was apparently 99% funded by the immigrants themselves (user fees).** I'm not sure how much the BAMF got that year insofar as federal funding goes, but considering I saw a 1.08n investment in something related to them while failing to find those numbers, I get the distinct feeling their government is investing something over 1% of 3.2b.

Seriously, the more I'm digging the more it looks like there actually are pretty serious economies of scale going on, and we're mostly using them to just tread water instead of ramping up the funding and manpower to take advantage of 'em and start kicking ass and taking names.

*Credit where it's due, there's still plenty we're out performing, including the next two countries up in population.

**Thiiis, however, may explain some of the problems we're having. Go figure, give an organization a strong incentive to drag a process out and you may just happen to see some inefficiencies pop up. I'unno if we've found the problem with the US immigration system that's holding it back from kicking everyone around in regards to efficiency and crap, but I rather imagine it's not helping :V
« Last Edit: June 04, 2016, 11:03:10 am by Frumple »
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mainiac

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #18917 on: June 04, 2016, 11:37:18 am »

You're probably right.

But what if I wasn't?
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Sheb

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #18918 on: June 04, 2016, 11:39:44 am »

You're probably right.

But what if I wasn't?

Then I don't have the energy to try to prove you wrong.
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mainiac

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #18919 on: June 04, 2016, 11:43:09 am »

But what if you did?
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Sheb

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #18920 on: June 04, 2016, 11:43:58 am »

But what if you did?

Mainiac, go home, you're drunk.
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Shadowlord

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #18921 on: June 04, 2016, 11:44:53 am »

So no opinions whatsoever on the Trump supporters in San Jose being attacked while police stand by doing jack all? With news organizations and politicians critizing the victims for not "taking the beatings"?

Came here to see what people who aren't my mom think about it, if there was another side to the story or such but apparently no-one even noticed?

Whut? What I read was that a bunch of anti-Trumpist got arrested, and I haven't seen anyone saying they should have taken the beating.

What Sheb said is the same for me as well. What kind of imaginary news source does your mom follow, BFEL?
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #18922 on: June 04, 2016, 11:53:15 am »

But what if you did?

Mainiac, go home, you're drunk.

The subject's psychosis demands, even requires that you shitpost and argue with him. Mere deference is not enough, as it does not fufill the real desire, not to win the argument, but the psycho-sexual thirst for combat.
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mainiac

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #18923 on: June 04, 2016, 11:54:47 am »

But what if-

(okay I'll stop now  :D)
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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BFEL

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #18924 on: June 04, 2016, 12:02:16 pm »

Apparently ABC news is the one that's reporting what she claims happened, and "all the other ones" are the ones saying things about accepting the beatings.

She originally got this from The Conservative Treehouse, which is the place she frequents. She's sending me the article from them, which has videos of the stuff she's talking about embedded.
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mainiac

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #18925 on: June 04, 2016, 12:04:16 pm »

Treehouse is such a great name for a land of make believe.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

BFEL

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #18926 on: June 04, 2016, 12:09:54 pm »

Treehouse is such a great name for a land of make believe.
Perhaps.

Here's the article with the vids
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/06/02/breaking-video-trump-rally-supporters-attacked-by-violent-mob-in-san-jose-police-watch-and-do-nothing/#more-116966

Seeing as the site wears its bias on its sleeve, I'd judge it by the vids instead of the article.
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Sheb

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #18927 on: June 04, 2016, 12:12:22 pm »

Well, four protesters got arrested. Apparently the police didn't have enough people on hand there, with "only" 250 officers that got overwhelmed when 400 anti-Trumper showed up. The police chief said he didn't act more forcefully because he was afraid to turn it into a real riot.

I've not found any mention that they should "take a beating". Just a bunch of people condemning the violence.
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BFEL

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #18928 on: June 04, 2016, 12:22:51 pm »

I've not found any mention that they should "take a beating". Just a bunch of people condemning the violence.
Apparently it was CNN reporter Sara Murray. According to the article I linked at least.
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Frumple

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #18929 on: June 04, 2016, 12:27:54 pm »

Frumple, that 3.2b self-funding does not surprise me. As I said, $20,000 for the paperwork through USCIS alone. We get to spend another $2500 in a few years just to get citizenship.
Hey, hey. 3.168b of self funding. 1% came from the fed. And I'm sure at least some millions came from passport fees and whatnot!

And by sure, I mean I just checked, and found out the USCIS doesn't handle passports at all. Welp.

But yeah, hadn't really looked at it much. Today I learned we have instantiated what appears to multi-billion dollar industry substantially dedicated using those multiple billions to make more multiple billions from people trying to immigrate (with a side order of actually helping them immigrate), apparently because our government/people cannot be arsed to give much of a fuck's worth of support for 'em.

What the fuck, country my country?

On the other hand, I guess there has to be some kind of twisted kudos given to the USCIS? They are apparently exploiting the hell out of the people they're supposed to be helping (i.e. being what can only be grotesquely inefficient and ineffective, just to maintain funding), and still managing to process quite a lot of people. It's seriously screwed straight up fucked up, but at the same time somehow somewhat impressive.

E: Definitely goes a long way towards explaining how we're apparently not beating the BAMF at the game, though. Seriously, how the hell can we let that go? We could be legitimately saying the US immigration services are more badass than the BAMF, and we're letting this opportunity slip through our gorram fingers.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2016, 01:26:57 pm by Frumple »
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