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Author Topic: ☼Succubus☼ - Discussions and suggestions  (Read 58366 times)

Boltgun

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Masterwork Reborn
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2015, 09:05:36 am »

In the mod with 34.11 or the new one? Because that old 2000-4000 undeads shouldnt happen in the new version.

In the new one. I could study its content and it looked like a nice place to live (or not).
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IndigoFenix

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Masterwork Reborn
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2015, 09:12:04 am »

Well, the species name/adjective is used for the materials and most things related to them aside from the individual creatures themselves.

If the species NAME is demon:demons:demonic, and the CASTE_NAME is succubus:succubi:succubus, demonic will be used to refer to their body materials/civilizations/etc.

Boltgun

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Masterwork Reborn
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2015, 09:36:42 am »

Then succubus:succubi:demonic should be a good compromise. The embark screen will remain simple and ingame their production and settlement will be named 'demonic'.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Masterwork Reborn
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2015, 10:10:37 am »

Sometimes the species name (not adjective) is used, though.  It's a little weird.

I guess it really depends on whether you want the race to be generic demons of both genders, or skewed toward female as it is now.  It's all a question of atmosphere and tone (well, that and reproduction speed).
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 10:40:45 am by IndigoFenix »
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Boltgun

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Masterwork Reborn
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2015, 10:38:45 am »

If I can keep it skewed towards females I'd prefer. I like the idea of having a race shown with its female gender by default in comparison to dwarves. (plus somehow I get forts filled with kids with a normal race)

I'll do some science on babysnatching but I am sure that the succubi bred a lot in 0.34, having less breeding couples led each one to have five time the kids and in the end I had to cull their max numbers. Obviously, the goblins did not get as much bugfixing as humans and dwarves, seeing how much bugs I found.

Edit: The big difference for gobbos is that their NO_EAT and NO_DRINK tags cause the world gen to pop thousands of them. Removing those tags culls 75% of their population. Giving this to succubi might make the game too easy.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 10:42:51 am by Boltgun »
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IndigoFenix

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Masterwork Reborn
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2015, 10:40:50 am »

An idea: It would be cool if you could extract a creature's actual soul data using a script, instead of using extra butcher objects like the old version did.  I'm not sure how you would store it, though... perhaps you could create an item and then store a reference to the soul's owner as the item's creator.  Then you could use the item to do things based on the personality of the soul.  Warlocks and other soul-using races could make use of this script as well.

EDIT: Here's another thing to look out for that will affect populations: orientation.  If that one incubus is gay, non-committal, or asexual, he won't be having children.
Here's an idea: instead of using gender ratios, fine-tune the population using orientation.  Make both genders have a high rate of taking lovers of either sex, and adjust the population based on rate of marriage.  Lots of sleeping around, few committal relationships and children.  Makes sense for lust demons, don't you think?
Just because the 'default' demon is female doesn't mean that incubi have to actually be less common.  Dwarves are split 50/50, after all.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 11:06:33 am by IndigoFenix »
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Boltgun

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Masterwork Reborn
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2015, 11:14:41 am »

Now that you mention, I may have screwed up orientations too assuming that they'd try and have kids without marriage, being french and all...

I don't believe that you can assign a soul to an item but perhaps a key/value table can be stored. Then a reaction can lead a succubus into eating souls, getting a small boost in attributes but also 20% of it's experience, personality changes and even incoherent thoughts doing so (and fat). It can go beyond evil, by eating your own succubi souls to salvage a legendary skill.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 11:17:27 am by Boltgun »
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IndigoFenix

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Masterwork Reborn
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2015, 11:28:09 am »

Now that you mention, I may have screwed up orientations too assuming that they'd try and have kids without marriage, being french and all...

I don't believe that you can assign a soul to an item but perhaps a key/value table can be stored. Then a reaction can lead a succubus into eating souls, getting a small boost in attributes but also 20% of it's experience, personality changes and even incoherent thoughts doing so (and fat). It can go beyond evil, by eating your own succubi souls to salvage a legendary skill.

You can't assign a soul to an item, but you can assign a creator to an item (or owner, but the owner can change so that wouldn't work).  If you replace the creator ID with the 'extracted' unit's ID after creating the item, the reaction that uses the soul can make a callback to the item's 'creator' ID and run a search for the unit with that ID.  They should still retain their soul reference even when dead, so the reaction can read its data.

You could use a persistent key/value table, but keeping all the variables stored in-game just seems neater (and would be easier to integrate with scripts used by other races).  Whichever works, I suppose.

Acquiring the skills and thoughts of the soul by eating it...that's perfect.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 11:32:07 am by IndigoFenix »
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Boltgun

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Masterwork Reborn
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2015, 11:52:28 am »

Ah yes the creator field can be used, that save us headaches. I wonder if DF even track such info for butchered items and itemcorpses.

To help sorting and managing, souls with lots of skills would get a quality level.
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Weirdsound

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Masterwork Reborn
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2015, 01:21:20 pm »

Question: How many test worlds have you made, and how long have you let them run, regarding the issue in which other races take over Succubi society? If you havn't run more than two or three worlds, you might have just gotten unlucky with a small sample size. If this problem only occurs after a few hundred years or so, the fix might just be suggesting a shorter history.

In general, I'd like to see these ladies keep their current trade partners, so a fix other than making the exclusively thieves would be preferable. Being exclusively thieves will also more or less ensure that they will never invade other races, no? Unless the player more or less intentionally feeds them stuff to steal...

I know somewhere there is a marriage and breeding sciences thread, and Toady changed alot of that stuff going into the new version. I'm not sure how much is open to the raws, and how much can effect world history as opposed to what just goes on at your fort, but it might be worth looking into.
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Iazo

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Masterwork Reborn
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2015, 01:22:33 pm »

Are dark Succubae going to make a comeback?

I"ve always loved the gameplay no interrupted by pesky traders or immigrants!
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Rydel

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Masterwork Reborn
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2015, 01:30:50 pm »

For the issue of getting overrun by humans, perhaps you could also have them have multiple births more often.  Since they reproduce at roughly one-fifth the speed, having them be likely to have quintuplets should even things out.

Weirdsound

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Masterwork Reborn
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2015, 01:39:26 pm »

This sounds terrible, but sexual orientation is in the game now. A race with fewer males might see a more dramatic effect on their birthrate caused by some of their men preferring men.

Edit: If I remember correctly from the science thread on the matter, each individual has a separate field for preferred lover's gender and preferred spouses' gender. I'm not sure if the rates can be modded, but it may be prudent to make all fooccubi prefer opposite gendered spouses but have no preference for the gender of their lover.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 01:43:13 pm by Weirdsound »
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Boltgun

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Masterwork Reborn
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2015, 02:09:06 pm »

Orientation rates can be modded, I expected to run into issues with the gender ratio anyway and I think I got in wrong anyway. With some tweaking it can be fixed, I have many options and did not try them all.

On the orc thread I saw that you can require specific creatures for leadership so I can prevent humans from taking over. That will stay playable until

I tested on a couple of worlds with 5-125 years of history, it's a small sample so I'll do proper science and measure how the succubi fare and compare that with goblins. Perhaps it's bad luck or I did not gave it enough time. But considering the fps of the recent versions, I'll prioritize small short worlds.

Deep succubi won't be back but you can ask Meph for a no-trade option.

I'm also trying to add flavor in their descriptions, succubi would be born with tiny horns and tail and it would grow slowly, an elder succubus should have impressive horns. None of that is showing up for now.  :P
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than402

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Masterwork Reborn
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2015, 02:12:31 pm »

For the issue of getting overrun by humans, perhaps you could also have them have multiple births more often.  Since they reproduce at roughly one-fifth the speed, having them be likely to have quintuplets should even things out.

but then you'll have to deal with married couples giving birth to quintuplets basically every year in your dungeon... if you're lucky, you'll only get a couple of them, if you're unlucky you'll be overrun by demon babies :P

I'm also trying to add flavor in their descriptions, succubi would be born with tiny horns and tail and it would grow slowly, an elder succubus should have impressive horns. None of that is showing up for now.  :P

will they also have gore attacks?
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