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Author Topic: ☼Succubus☼ - Discussions and suggestions  (Read 187883 times)

Boltgun

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Discussions and suggestions
« Reply #255 on: May 06, 2016, 04:02:13 am »

MDF is back, so is this thread.

I am very careful when adding a new workshop. In the past there were a few that served little purpose and confused the hell out of players as I could see in youtube. Another concern of me is that the game gets a lot easier for this race with fire immunity, free fuel, and good attributes.

Attributes has already been nerfed and should be 'okay', with future updates in mind. Succubi have now normal human strength, great agility and bad endurance/willpower. This means that a good succubus is really hard to hit and will hit several times before enemies reacts but will tire and die as soon they get wounded. Oh and they are the best artists of the world. Even an untrained stupid succubus can dance well.

I also plan to reduce traps comps to the strict minimum. I'm sure 10 bronze great axes would still kill enemies. I'd remove drawbridges too if I could to shift the play style.

In response to the suggestions posted here.

Temple of sin is coming back as soon as I fix a bug with dfhack's syndromes. There is an alpha version in the raw that assign powers, but the affected worker never use their interaction. There is no point in having a pyromancer is she does not throw fireballs. Either way, I could properly balance it now as you can only provide one major power and one minor power, so you'll have to chose your combos carefully.

Altar of nightmares should come back right after the temple of sin. Soul wells will use a new mechanic involving item quality and soul forges and other fun stuff will come back afterwards. You'll be able to eat souls to learn skills too, including from your late citizen's.

Glass weapons and armor, obsidian included, makes sense and will act as a cheap way to outfit your army.

Slade Crucible: Slade is great as a building material as it is both free and difficult to handle, but I do not know what purpose slade metal will achieve here. I plan to explore flesh shaping instead.

Pin Pricker: Great idea, because succubi have hooves! Through this and itemsyndrome, we can make squads of strikers/kickers a good choice.

Spark: I'll definitely add this.

Harpy nest: I'll make such creatures a summoned entity instead. However, I plan to use workshop upgrades to create specialized creatures pit (looking like demons pits of 40d). Those pits will upgrade summoned monsters and give them new interactions.

Magma Pit: This is good for thematic indeed and I'll be able to add magma requirement, more magma is always good magma.

Fire from the Summoning Circle: Yes, I'll might add it to the Spark and name it idol of fire or something. I'll add the fireball rain for old MDF too because it's awesome.

Alchemist: Special ammo and such was added at some point but removed because it was redundant to fire imps and powers. I'll think I'll skip alchemy entirely and leave it to necromancers or something better tied to it.

Decorations: Yes, lots of yes.

Gargoyle Mason: Nice idea, and for more evil it will involve binding a soul in it. The soul's quality should affect the result.

Magma Waterfall/Aquifer thing: Will do, we want our peculiar structures with flowing magma everywhere.

Thorny plants: I like that, I'll remove all trap comps and let you use these plants as a replacement for corkscrews.

Darkpact: Hum... In my point of view, they are the devils and have the powers cultists crave. Maybe I can invert this by selling a weapon for souls, in case the player is out of stock. The value of the weapon will affect the value of the soul.

By the way I also want to do the same with possession: instead of getting an artefact and no skills, you get skills and no artefact. Another kind of strange mood would be that the succubus get summoned, so you lose it for a while, and it come back with a masterwork soul.

Taming HFS: Planned but I need to design this.

Spanking/Whipping/Pillory/Torture chamber: Very Dungeon Keeper, approved.

Chastidy belt: CHASTITY!? Joke aside, I always figured that the succubi should at least know a thing or two about contraceptives. I'll come up with a special item.

Blindfold: While it's a good idea, I'd drop siege engines if DF would let me.

Sacrifical altar: That will probably be one of the jobs for creatures pits.

Black Candle: The idea is good, the execution will lead it to be an item instead to be consumed at the altar of nightmares instead.

While we're talking about black candles, I'd like to add items that hurt the succubi too for other races to use. I'm thinking of hand candles that paralyse them, parchments of binding or secrets giving vows of purity that cause intense stress.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2016, 04:03:48 am by Boltgun »
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Meph

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Discussions and suggestions
« Reply #256 on: May 06, 2016, 04:59:23 am »

I didnt see many questions, only the one about slade.

Quote
Slade Crucible: Slade is great as a building material as it is both free and difficult to handle, but I do not know what purpose slade metal will achieve here. I plan to explore flesh shaping instead.
Slade metal, very heavy, good blunt weapon and trap-comps, good ballista ammo, and nearly impenetrable armor that makes the user really slow to move.

Quote
Thorny plants: I like that, I'll remove all trap comps and let you use these plants as a replacement for corkscrews.
Corkscrews are used in pumps...

About removing drawbridges: You could disable the PERMITTED_JOB:MECHANIC in the entity file. No traps, no bridges, no floodgates, no levers, no traction benches... in previous versions removing permitted jobs didnt work right, but Toady fixed that. And no siege engines, if you remove SIEGE_OPERATOR.

I also read that Milo Christiansen had some script to remove hardcoded buildings, maybe he can just take out levers and siege engines. This way you can still make traps and traction benches, but no drawbridges or drowning traps.

« Last Edit: May 06, 2016, 05:00:55 am by Meph »
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Boltgun

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Discussions and suggestions
« Reply #257 on: May 06, 2016, 05:25:48 am »

I did remove mechanics in a very early version and that made the game boring but perhaps after implementing several new buildings, we can afford this. Another issue might be that cage traps are important for corruption.

This is where the building removal might help.

Quote
Slade metal, very heavy, good blunt weapon and trap-comps, good ballista ammo, and nearly impenetrable armor that makes the user really slow to move.

I made tests with afelsteel (a very heavy steel, will be part of a future corruption system) and unfortunately it seems that master armor users are not affected by weight at all. I'll test with slade but I want to avoid making masters even more impossible to kill. Itemsyndrome might help to create a trade off.

Quote
Corkscrews are used in pumps...

I meant that you'll be able to use these plants to build pumps with.

Edit: Btw the smut you can do in the image editor is amazing.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2016, 05:33:36 am by Boltgun »
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Mord_Sith

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Discussions and suggestions
« Reply #258 on: May 08, 2016, 03:48:21 am »

Succubi played with MDF version 2.6.0.0 DF 42.06 (just downloaded yesterday)

Bugs:
  • Trading with home Succubi causes the fort to go into an uproar due to 'kidnapping' and 'stealing' of items, especially mastercraft items that were traded, causing the unwary to trigger a tantrum spiral of epic proportions.
  • Have yet to have an invasion after four years on site with werebeasts and humans nearby, perhaps a way to instigate an attack or launch an attack of your own might accelerate this process if desired.
  • Totems get locked up somehow, not sure how, only that I found that when I only had one totem, trying to build the summoning pit was a nightmare because it would keep being unavailable for whatever reason, coupled with the above it's somewhat perturbing when your animal farm isn't up to par yet.
  • Sometimes the Succubi trade caravan gets lost, doesn't show up, but the envoy message triggers, the game will crash when the traders are supposed to leave because they aren't even on the map. Could arguably be part of the fact that I have a cart tunnel but everything checks out as the depot being accessible.
  • Werebeasts that show up sometimes show up in the list as 'Friendly' even though the embark screen paints them as hostile and they are hostile towards the Succubi

Suggestions:
  • Unlock various workspaces and options based on enslaved / 'coerced' races rather than have them all available at the get-go
    • Elves: Unlock bows, woodmolding
    • Dwarves: Unlock heavy armors, metallurgy
    • Humans: Unlock esoteric arms, agriculture
    • Goblins: Unlock cavalry, mercenaries
    • Etc.
  • Have the Succubi able to be tasked with a kidnapping task which sends them out into the wilderness, if they don't come back after a period of time they are assumed dead (could lead to some interesting HFS with a cruelly creative mind.)
  • Send intelligent species with the merchants instead of portal beasts based on whether or not any of that race has been enslaved by your civilization (possibly percentage based, no sense sending ten humans on a merchant trip when there are only two in the whole civilization.)
  • Have some method of having the Succubi entice people to visit their dungeon, not just nearby civs (this could really apply to any civ honestly) like having an unassuming tavern or other such structure for weary travellers to be added to the slave pool stop for a bit and rest before continuing their journey
  • Have Succubi able to be tasked with harvesting souls, similar to kidnapping, only instead of coming back with a complicit intelligent creature, it goes out and steals souls, leaving the meaty bit for the other poor sods to find later.
  • Have a 'Soul Pool' that the Succubi must draw upon once a week / month, without it they become considerably weaker (similar to dorfen slowness) and unable to call upon hellfire and other abilities of their nature until they can draw energy from the pool, if left too long, the aging process begins to accelerate (from a dead-stop when they have enough, to a multiplier based on the number of weeks / months without soul energy) and ultimately die.
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Mord_Sith

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Discussions and suggestions
« Reply #259 on: May 08, 2016, 03:59:47 am »

Quote
Slade metal, very heavy, good blunt weapon and trap-comps, good ballista ammo, and nearly impenetrable armor that makes the user really slow to move.

I made tests with afelsteel (a very heavy steel, will be part of a future corruption system) and unfortunately it seems that master armor users are not affected by weight at all. I'll test with slade but I want to avoid making masters even more impossible to kill. Itemsyndrome might help to create a trade off.

Suggestion for that might be that certain materials or armors cause multiplying unhappy thoughts? If everyone else is wearing pretty scanty garb and you're wandering around in a metal sarcophagus you'd be pretty put out. Cause some of the fort to mock whomever wears the heavy armor (adding more unhappy thoughts) etc.

Of course that might just make it so you have to micromanage Donning and Doffing, but that's a different problem.
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cerevox

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Discussions and suggestions
« Reply #260 on: May 08, 2016, 04:23:58 am »

The kidnapper warnings happen every time because the succubi are a slaver race. It doesn't actually do anything, it just gives you the warning. I think its the same for lost masterwork items, but wouldn't swear on that. At least, I haven't seen a reaction from selling masterwork items. They might have been unhappy, but under the new stress system you have to really work at it to make them freak out.
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Mord_Sith

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Discussions and suggestions
« Reply #261 on: May 08, 2016, 04:41:52 am »

Perhaps; however, I'm leery to start selling off my craft goods now because one in three seem to be masterworks, which will ultimately cause freakouts, I sold four masterworks by one guy and he flipped his bananas pretty bad, didn't go full-blown spiral, but I can't stop looking at my finished goods stockpile and seeing a powder-keg ready to go off if not managed correctly.
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Meph

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Discussions and suggestions
« Reply #262 on: May 08, 2016, 05:24:47 am »

Boltgun... custom decorations work. What do you need?

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Boltgun

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Discussions and suggestions
« Reply #263 on: May 08, 2016, 12:24:37 pm »

Boltgun... custom decorations work. What do you need?

Right out of my head, 2x2 pentagrams, demonic and feminine statues, torture instruments, colored fires.

And upright adamantine swords...

Perhaps; however, I'm leery to start selling off my craft goods now because one in three seem to be masterworks, which will ultimately cause freakouts, I sold four masterworks by one guy and he flipped his bananas pretty bad, didn't go full-blown spiral, but I can't stop looking at my finished goods stockpile and seeing a powder-keg ready to go off if not managed correctly.

Did you assign them into team Evil? In this team you have less migrations and trading masterworks will cause this stress. You can fix that either by:
- making sure that the succubi are a slaver civ and generate a new world
- or going into you save (Dwarf Fortress/data/<save>/raw/object) and open entity_slaver_succubus with notepad++ or sublime text and removing [ITEM_THIEF].

Sieges will come out once you have produced enough goods. Friendly werebeast seems to be a DF bug, they are not friendly at all.

Some good suggestion here, buying sentient slaves could be a way to boost the population if you get no migration because you should be able to corrupt them. I'll keep that in mind.

BY the way, I'd like some data on FPS if possible. In particular how slower the game get while playing succubi in comparison to dwarves.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 12:27:54 pm by Boltgun »
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Meph

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Discussions and suggestions
« Reply #264 on: May 08, 2016, 01:31:09 pm »

Any of this helpful?

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Mord_Sith

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Discussions and suggestions
« Reply #265 on: May 08, 2016, 01:58:09 pm »

Perhaps; however, I'm leery to start selling off my craft goods now because one in three seem to be masterworks, which will ultimately cause freakouts, I sold four masterworks by one guy and he flipped his bananas pretty bad, didn't go full-blown spiral, but I can't stop looking at my finished goods stockpile and seeing a powder-keg ready to go off if not managed correctly.

Did you assign them into team Evil? In this team you have less migrations and trading masterworks will cause this stress. You can fix that either by:
- making sure that the succubi are a slaver civ and generate a new world
- or going into you save (Dwarf Fortress/data/<save>/raw/object) and open entity_slaver_succubus with notepad++ or sublime text and removing [ITEM_THIEF].

Sieges will come out once you have produced enough goods. Friendly werebeast seems to be a DF bug, they are not friendly at all.

Some good suggestion here, buying sentient slaves could be a way to boost the population if you get no migration because you should be able to corrupt them. I'll keep that in mind.

BY the way, I'd like some data on FPS if possible. In particular how slower the game get while playing succubi in comparison to dwarves.

Unless Masterwork's lying to me yes they've been assigned to team evil (set to slavers) and Goblins and Orcs show up as non-hostile on the embark screen.

Why are Succubi item thieves anyway out of curiosity?

I'm aware that wealth triggers invasions; however, the wealth of the fort should be pretty reasonable after a half-dozen Orich weapons and a bunch of iron armor and half a quad of stone finished goods that are currently being encrusted with the shells of the many pond turtles I've brutally murdered.


Addendum:

I just looked at the raw file for the save and it shows the following:
Quote
/// These two are toggled in one option, the Team. Can be "none, babysnatcher, itemthief, both". Option names are "civilized, savage, slaver, evil"
YES_BABYSNATCHER_SUCCUBUS[BABYSNATCHER]
!NO_ITEMTHIEF_SUCCUBUS!ITEM_THIEF]
Yet I get itemthief alerts with this save when traders take my masterworks away.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 02:58:19 pm by Mord_Sith »
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cerevox

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Discussions and suggestions
« Reply #266 on: May 08, 2016, 03:29:15 pm »

Okay, so I have started getting succubus sieges, while I am a succubus fort. The sieges pop in, and then in the next frame vanish. Its like the army has a value-radar they are using to target me, but when they arrive they realize I am part of their civ so they just leave. Single frame sieges can't be intended behavior.
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Mord_Sith

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Discussions and suggestions
« Reply #267 on: May 08, 2016, 03:32:45 pm »

Just had a convoy CROSS THE MAGMA POOL on the surface of my current location, setting fire and destroying countless trade goods because their pants were on fire when they got to the depot.

Also figured out why there was a spawn issue with the convoys, though I suspect that's because of DF core and not Succubi (I had my cart tunnel channeled out to within one square of the border and while the carts should have been able to spawn into that point, I suspect the ramps that were there weren't letting it.)
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Meph

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Discussions and suggestions
« Reply #268 on: May 08, 2016, 05:09:57 pm »

Magma-proof clothing might be of need for succubi.

Okay, so I have started getting succubus sieges, while I am a succubus fort. The sieges pop in, and then in the next frame vanish. Its like the army has a value-radar they are using to target me, but when they arrive they realize I am part of their civ so they just leave. Single frame sieges can't be intended behavior.
Thats strange. What does the civ say when you press C? Any Succubi civ you are at war with?
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cerevox

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Re: ☼Succubus☼ - Discussions and suggestions
« Reply #269 on: May 08, 2016, 06:28:40 pm »

Only one succubus civ exists in this world, which is the one I am from.
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