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[puke]

Figures they're in the games I either haven't bothered or don't want to play. I continue to cite ogres, battlewheels, and the like.

Oh, thats too bad.  I really liked Empire, you should check it out.  The trade/economic/colonial aspects are right up my alley.  It's no Imperialism but it is still pretty good -- and the puckle guns, rocket barrages, and mortars with flaming carcass shot are just icing on the cake.  Rocket barrages are fairly ineffective, but they do tend to make people loose their bowels a little.

Seriously: there's nothing better than having a well disciplined force facing a vastly numerically superior foe, putting them into a defensive square in a last act of desperation, and then watching the enemy break against the square like waves against an unyielding cliff. 

Also:  Heavy First-Rate ship-of-the-line?  about 4K each.  Steamship?  ~1800 a piece.  Plowing them through a fleet of lesser vessels while they explode or burn to the waterline?  Priceless. 

You can even make some (very very loose) approximation of proper naval tactics -- my favorite is Nelson's strategy at Trafalgar, which I'll have you know is TOTALLY NONVIABLE in this little game: http://www.eic-game.com/?page=battle_of_trafalgar so E:TW  wins some points from me on that front....

Empire has a great mix of components that come together spectacularly, and I think I'm going to play it some more tomorrow now that I've been reminded.

To you point though, things like Ogres and Steam Tanks and Battle Wheels... these are really just models.  There are already elephants and siege towers, people have already made fantasy mods, and at least one existing Warhammer mod that was linked a page or so back.  So this stuff has been done in concept.

I think the trick will be somehow capturing the asymmetric nature of how the conflicts would naturally play out.  The wargame fluff is written in such a was as to always afford everyone a chance to play their army against anyone else... and this is not conducive to a grand strategy game that needs to have things like borders and resources and diplomacy and motivations for conflict.

I mean, why would undead hordes invade?  They sure don't want your fertile crop lands, why would the Tomb Lords not just hang out and continue to slowly grow their undead armies and limitless labor force with whatever small living population they still have?  They have a guaranteed stream of steady growth without increasing overhead, and basically no one should be motivated to come take their shitty arid land.  They'd probably make the best neighbors and trade partners in the world!

Should be the same with necromancer towers in DF.  Why are they invading?  Why dont they provide valuable services to neighboring kingdoms (like road construction, or removing stones from fields) in exchange for a steady supply of bodies?  They should be the BEST NEIGHBORS EVAR.

Wow, that was a long tangent.  Don't know what happened there.

Well you forget some things. Lorewise Skaven are in a constant War with Night Goblins and the Dwarves and since all three are basically below ground nations (remember the dwarves are mostly interested in their Lost Mountainhomes) it would indeed make sense to do a Second Layer to the World Map which runs underground. Also there is the Chaos Dwarves which i forgot.

ooo.  I did forget about that.  That could actually be really interesting if they implement it well.

[Remuthra]

Figures they're in the games I either haven't bothered or don't want to play. I continue to cite ogres, battlewheels, and the like.

Oh, thats too bad.  I really liked Empire, you should check it out.  The trade/economic/colonial aspects are right up my alley.  It's no Imperialism but it is still pretty good -- and the puckle guns, rocket barrages, and mortars with flaming carcass shot are just icing on the cake.  Rocket barrages are fairly ineffective, but they do tend to make people loose their bowels a little.

I actually have Empire, but I've yet to get it working without extreme graphical corruption. I'll fix and play it some day.

[Stuebi]

The TWcenter forums for Total War is full of people raging. If you want a good laugh, go through all the ragers. Haven't stepped into the official forums yet, I don't feel like laughing that much as they are probably even more funny.

Could we, perhaps, get a summary of the main cause of rage?

I'll sum it up with what I've read.

warhammer tabletop are toys for kids who like to play paint the "dolls".

only nerds like warhammer

Total war has always been based on history! it is a series for mature gamers and now its going to be aiming for kids

I hate warhammer. This series is really going down hill.

That pretty much sums up all the ragers. Though most posts are being deleted now I noticed.

The TW-Forums are one of the worst places for actual discussion. A thing I allways found quite ironic, considering what Total War games are. I expected a mature userbase, with plenty of interesting topics. But it's basically just people yelling at each other and complaining for the sake of complaining.

Shogun 2 was my favorite Total War to this day. Rome 2 had a horrible launch, but became pretty good after a lot of patches. So basically I hope they dont botch the release this time, but I'm convinced the game will be good after a few months either way.

About the mechanics, and race-wise. Orks and Chaos have holdings too. Albeit mostly villages, unless they conquer a fortress somewhere. Afaik there are quite a few dwarven Mountainhomes currently inhabited by Greenskin-Tribes. Skarsnik holds the biggest one, me thinks. I personally care more about Unit Types, Heroes and all that stuff. After all, simply having "General" doesnt really work in Warhammer. And I will be greatly dissapointed if you can only play human factions. That would be an instant "No buy" for me.

[Delta Foxtrot]

They've had a lot of units as paid DLC since Empire/Napoleon and Rome 2 has plenty of factions behind a similar paywall. At the very least I'm expecting some of the more iconic and buffed up units to be unavailable without DLC. Worst case scenario they cut a lot of playable factions out of the base game.

It might end up ok, it might not. It's way too early to tell.

[GreatJustice]

I used to post regularly on TWCenter, and back then I recall it having fairly even handed, reasonable discussion, easy access to solid mods, and a good community. Hell, I distinctly recall a few people specifically asking CA to try making a Warhammer game. Then again, the last time I posted on TWCenter regularly was when Medieval 2: Kingdoms was the newest game and Empire was just a whisper on the wind.

[Mech#4]

The mechanics they had for generals in the multiplayer part of Shogun II would be good to use again. Win battles and you can find armour and weapons to equip your general with, traits from certain situations (been wounded could increase toughness or decrease leadership from cowardliness) and so on.

The unit upgrades in Rome II would be good to see also. In "Shadow of the Horned Rat" your units could gain banners and items to improve their statistics encouraging you to keep units alive which also allows stories to develop around their exploits.

[Digital Hellhound]

Shogun 2's multiplayer in general had good ideas that unfortunately weren't carried over to Rome 2. Units that performed well in battle could be promoted to (more expensive to wield) veterans, with name and colors customization and upgrades you could get as they gained more levels. Little things that made them more personalized. They also would need to reinforce when they took losses, meaning you'd need to shift around your army composition every now and then. Something like that would be nice to have here.

For SP, Rome 2 consistent, trait-gaining legions were a good idea, but I thought not really developed enough in-game. Little things, like the game remembering their great victories and defeats (in a cooler way than just listing them), their actions and not just player choice giving them different traits, etc., would be nice.

[~Neri]

They /Need/ to pull off necromancy properly.

[Mech#4]

Did someone say necromancy?


There is now a trailer for the game out. Factions shown include Orcs, Empire, Dwarves, Vampire Counts and Chaos (Tzeentch).

No gameplay but with the trailer there will probably be more things released soon about it. Get that marketing machine running and all that.

Also, the factions have been given leader names. Orcs: Grimgor Ironhide, Empire: Karl Franz, Dwarves: Thorgrim Grudgebearer, Vampire Counts: Mannfred von Carstein.
This is interesting because it rather firmly puts the game either before or in a separate timeline to the recent developments of "The End Times" due to... well...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Thorgrim is killed in the end times.

There was also mentioned that there would be “two further standalone instalments and additional content packs” so the other factions will probably be added at a later date. My guess would be instalments based on "The End Times" and the "Storm of Chaos" if they're time period ones.


Addition: Might I say that the chosen name of "Total War: Warhammer", while in line with the change to the titles of the previous games (putting Total War first), grates on my writing senses as it repeats the word "War". "Warhammer: Total War" would sound much better to me and I'm sure people are going to shorten the title to "Total Warhammer" as well. Eh, picky picky.

[gimli]

Nice trailer. I am keeping an eye on this game. 

[umiman]

I'm gonna call it Total Warhammer then. Sounds good to me.

I can't say I like the idea of a trilogy as that means it'll be... "story driven". Ugh. Don't force my campaigns in Total War please.

But whatever, we'll see. I like Warhammer more than nomadic steppe riders, but I don't like it that much to care all that much.

[Teneb]

I can't say I like the idea of a trilogy as that means it'll be... "story driven". Ugh. Don't force my campaigns in Total War please.

I'm guessing it'll be like Shogun 2 was, which sounds like it'll be indeed story driven.

[Nick K]

Shogun 2 had the "two standalone instalments" thing with ROTS (was that standalone? It was definitely a completely new campaign setting) and FOTS. If CA keep with that same sort of thing then these two expansions might be different time periods/campaigns rather than a single story that gets continued across several expansions.
I didn't like the Rise of the Samurai much, but having played all of them since Rome 1, FOTS is my favourite TW game. Those sort of huge expansions that feel like a new game are what I consider the good sort of DLC.

[GiglameshDespair]

I do wonder how they'll deal with the skaven and their undercities?

[Naryar]

hnnnggg they have finally announced it