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I am religious and believe in free will

70 (27.6%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

113 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (24%)

Total Members Voted: 249

[Bohandas]

That's much too vulgar a display of power Karras

[Bohandas]

Ok I have a religiously themed statement for discussion:

An infinite randomness is more powerful than any god put forth by mainstream religions.

What about Fortuna? (or do defunct/former mainstream religions not count?)

[Orange Wizard]

Holy triplepost batman

[Adragis]

That's much too vulgar a display of power Karras

Gentleman Jesus has no time for your vulgarities.

[TD1]

On the topic of miracles, I recall a famous one in which Jesus was healing people as they came, and some people crawled in through the roof. This seems rather public/well known about.

[origamiscienceguy]

As somebody who wasn't raised Christian, this conversation is bewildering.

Of course Jesus wasn't god. Was he a religious leader? Sure. Did he have a connection with god? Probably. Was he, himself, God? No, of course not.

Have you read Revalations?

Revalation 19:11-16 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

This is talking about the second coming of Jesus. I don't think a spiritual leader could manage any of this. (Also, reading this, you begin to understand why people were afraid of angels.)

On the topic of miracles, I recall a famous one in which Jesus was healing people as they came, and some people crawled in through the roof. This seems rather public/well known about.

Again, Jesus didn't heal him because he wanted to have Glory, he was doing ministry, and Jesus even used the faith of the man and his fiends as a teaching moment for the pharisees. Other times, the Bible describes Jesus as healing people because he had pity for them or because he could use their faith to teach people.

[scrdest]

As somebody who wasn't raised Christian, this conversation is bewildering.

Of course Jesus wasn't god. Was he a religious leader? Sure. Did he have a connection with god? Probably. Was he, himself, God? No, of course not.

Have you read Revalations?

Revalation 19:11-16 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

This is talking about the second coming of Jesus. I don't think a spiritual leader could manage any of this. (Also, reading this, you begin to understand why people were afraid of angels.)

Says you. And-slash-or traditional exegesis. Jesus is not mentioned by name anywhere here. Revelations is in general cryptic and circumlocutory enough that even self-styled literalists, as much as they'd hate to admit that, treat it like a metaphor; the difference is in the interpretation.

[TempAcc]

That part of the revelation was only later associated with Jesus. There's no canon source pointing to the first horseman being Jesus. That and the revelations are supposed to be mostly symbolic, unlike earlier prophecies made by Jesus, like the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem, which happened decades after his death.

Even the whole deal of Jesus claiming to be the son of God is a bit shady, and may have been added later. Jesus only called God "father", and technically, God is everyone's father. If anything, Jesus was closer to God than anyone else, but never claimed to be God or a part of God even.

[origamiscienceguy]

As somebody who wasn't raised Christian, this conversation is bewildering.

Of course Jesus wasn't god. Was he a religious leader? Sure. Did he have a connection with god? Probably. Was he, himself, God? No, of course not.

Have you read Revalations?

Revalation 19:11-16 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

This is talking about the second coming of Jesus. I don't think a spiritual leader could manage any of this. (Also, reading this, you begin to understand why people were afraid of angels.)

Says you. And-slash-or traditional exegesis. Jesus is not mentioned by name anywhere here. Revelations is in general cryptic and circumlocutory enough that even self-styled literalists, as much as they'd hate to admit that, treat it like a metaphor; the difference is in the interpretation.

If you read earlier, Revelation says:
Revelation 19:9 Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”

At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus.

This is an angel talking to John saying that both of them will bear testimony to Jesus, right after this, the white rider comes. Jesus also says alot in the Gospels that he is coming back.

How can you tell say this is a metaphor? It hasn't even happened yet!

[Adragis]

A lot of Revelations is intentionally cryptic and referential because of John's house arrest, I seem to recall. Don't want the Romans censoring all your Revelations because of blatant anarchy.

[That Wolf]

When you die all becomes irrelevant and you are born anew.
The oldest text in the world says so.
Dont believe me tho. Im a crazy sexy mfer.
But its true. The me being sexy part

[TD1]

Since when does "old" mean "right"? Should we return to the shame culture of the Romans/Greeks?

[That Wolf]

No old isnt right, but the bible is old. And the vedas is a buzzy text.
Meditation and yoga work so alot of eastern ideas are actually proven to work in the scientific community.
While praying to a god who reads ur thoughts seems backward and acheives no results.
True gods demand blood

[TD1]

Despite the Troll feel of the above, I'm going to assume you actually meant what you said in the first half of your post.

Meditation and prayer both work in similar ways. The serve to focus the mind. This does not need to be done in a religious context - whether you pray for kindness from the universe or God, the effect is the same. So yes, Eastern meditative practices work, but that in no way adds to the validity of any religion.

[Adragis]

Meditation and yoga work, but accepted science doesn't generally acknowledge chi or the other more spiritual aspects as truly 'spiritual', and those concepts are usually regarded as mental instead.

FAKEDIT: Above poster said the same kinda thing.