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What's your opinion on free will?

I am religious and believe in free will
- 69 (28.9%)
I am religious and do not believe in free will
- 9 (3.8%)
I am not religious and believe in free will
- 105 (43.9%)
I am not religious and do not believe in free will
- 56 (23.4%)

Total Members Voted: 235


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Author Topic: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion  (Read 427660 times)

Th4DwArfY1

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #7005 on: December 09, 2021, 10:12:27 am »

Guys I've found Brando Sando's stealth account.
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martinuzz

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #7006 on: December 09, 2021, 12:14:22 pm »

I find the teapot highly unlikely. Red wine tastes much better with spaghetti and meatballs.
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HmH

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #7007 on: December 10, 2021, 12:25:25 am »

We study the shards left behind and make out own teapots ofc. Unlimited refills means unlimited refills.
Why study the shards? We can make teapots already.
Certain people have made a lot of money throughout the 20th century by making their own divine teapots that are custom-suited to fit the brand of tea they sell.
And fantasy writers make sets of special teapots for each of the universes they write.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2021, 12:27:00 am by HmH »
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MaxTheFox

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #7008 on: December 10, 2021, 06:25:13 am »

I believe what feels right to me, to answer Rolan's metaphorical question. No real deeper explanation besides "intuition". I don't support forcing people to convert either, though I support giving everyone a choice. And I do mean everyone, if aliens were discovered I'd support Christian missionary activity (assuming their psyche is compatible with religion).
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Secretdorf

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #7009 on: December 10, 2021, 06:31:56 am »

I found out scary spirits in graveyard are a reality (well, i can tell how, its a long story( well not a story but I have no proof it is true))? Does that mean spirits are a real thing? ...
Ok does that mean... that... can science explain that? Otherwise, to me (at least), it means that there isn't only body but also spirit. (Well, I believed that already, but it really strenghthens my belief.)
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HmH

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #7010 on: December 10, 2021, 06:39:17 am »

If science can explain it, it'll probably explain your experience in terms of "brains are quirky bastards".

Thing is, memories are not set in stone and they're most certainly not objective.
Every time you remember something, your brain reconstructs a believable sequence of events based on a few data points and, importantly, on what you believe had happened.

That's the mechanism that makes hypnotic "retreival" of "repressed memories" basically worthless as evidence. (It is also one of the key mechanisms that make regression to a cause such a powerful therapeutic tool.)
Your brain records a few emotions, a few visual features, a few sounds, a few smells and then reconstructs all of that into what it believes had happened; it doesn't record all the data and play it back like a DVD.

This is why we have a lot of stories about hauntings and a frustrating lack of good camera footage.
Cameras don't have the same data storage and retrieval mechanisms that we do - such as a fluid, unreliable memory that shifts to fit your current beliefs.

---

Of course, science is no arbiter of truth - it is merely a set of methods and prior beliefs that helps people work with facts in an objective manner.
So there's no reason to cite scientific claims as grounds for moral or ideological decisions, including those on spirituality.

At best, if the data is reliable and sufficiently plentiful, science can say what is or is not, but no more than that.
Moral judgments are about what ought to be and ideological ones are about the things we prefer to believe.
Science has nothing in common with moral or ideological decision-making. To pretend otherwise is to invite the creation of utterly abominable things, such as the radical science movement.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2021, 06:56:32 am by HmH »
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Secretdorf

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #7011 on: December 10, 2021, 06:54:39 am »

I do know that(and initially thought so) but after almost half year... it is almost evident to me today that it was true. It continued to happen with the policemen that stood guard there (the place is on an international border). But something horrible happened there last night that almost escalated into a misunderstanding between security personnel on both sides of the border. Both decided that it was the best to leave the graveyard unguarded eventually. I am eating the more interesting details.
(Also, it was not some common strange thing. It was far more horrible than that.)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2021, 06:59:42 am by Secretdorf »
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HmH

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #7012 on: December 10, 2021, 06:58:17 am »

Well, they'll probably put some cameras in that otherwise-unguarded part of the border to compensate for lack of human presence.
Cameras might get some interesting results. Or not.

A skeptic would explain it as follows: "rumors of ghosts in that particular graveyard turned into a local myth, so people's beliefs were biased from the start. They were jumpy, their perceptions (which are biased too) noticed something odd and their memories made that oddity fit their beliefs".

But my headcanon is that there's a Scooby-Doo villain trying to start a war between your countries.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2021, 07:10:28 am by HmH »
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Rolan7

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #7013 on: December 18, 2021, 05:30:38 am »

Thank you EuchreJack and MaxTheFox for your kind words regarding my rather twisted metaphor.

Perhaps the most insulting thing is when someone claims that I'm arguing about religion in bad faith.  Saying that I believe and am actively rejecting YHW.  I have tried so hard to join the flock, I literally can't. 

Usually they aren't addressing me specifically, it's just a thing popular Christian demagogues tend to do.  They don't represent most Christians but it does scare me that they get so many followers.

I have had plenty of loving Christians in my life, even both my parents.  They just both believed in letting my brother and I find faith on our own  (letting us drink water instead of tea) and we respect each other's takes on the world.  well, nowadays.  I certainly went through a cringey internet-atheist phase... when I was looking after my very religious grandma.  It's nice to hear about my mother's heartfelt belief in Salvation and also hedge witches.  Or my dad's belief in demons that explain the worst aspects of mankind.  Both consider themselves Christians but I didn't even know that until I was almost an adult.

I get scared about Abrahamic fundamentalists legislating really awful things.  It's strange because most Abrahamists I interact with don't support those things.  For years I was terrified that certain Abrahamic groups were trying to go full handmaid's-tale (before that was in the public conscious) and Pence became vice-president-
But Trump didn't get JFK'd and, despite his bluster, things remained pretty okay for a secular person like me.  For a little while.

It sure would be nice if people stopped trying to legislate their religion.  Especially through the supreme court.  I just want to fondly regard some river bugs and treat them like fae, but these MFs all trying to force pregnancies on people.

That's what scares me so much about the "teapot".  Some people will do anything to promote it.  People in high offices.  And they sure don't like what I am!
« Last Edit: December 18, 2021, 05:32:13 am by Rolan7 »
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SystemsTestCanary

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #7014 on: December 18, 2021, 12:44:35 pm »

Perhaps the most insulting thing is when someone claims that I'm arguing about religion in bad faith.  Saying that I believe and am actively rejecting YHW.

Also annoying that this probably isn't going to go away soon, because this tactic is in the Bible itself, courtesy of Paul (see Romans 1:20.) So this tactic and those derived from it (such as "the existence of atheists proves God exists" or similar canards) are probably going to stick around.
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Schmaven

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #7015 on: December 19, 2021, 12:31:50 am »

Overall, it seems to me that religion has made people kinder and more compassionate.  Though there are many examples throughout history of great evils being done in the name of religion, they do not outdo the benefits religion has provided to societies.  One that comes to mind in particular as balancing primarily over on to the benefit side of the scales is Buddhism.  Though we humans do have a remarkable ability to use just about anything as a reason to harm one another. 
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MaxTheFox

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #7016 on: December 19, 2021, 12:56:38 am »

Overall, it seems to me that religion has made people kinder and more compassionate.  Though there are many examples throughout history of great evils being done in the name of religion, they do not outdo the benefits religion has provided to societies.  One that comes to mind in particular as balancing primarily over on to the benefit side of the scales is Buddhism.  Though we humans do have a remarkable ability to use just about anything as a reason to harm one another.
Exactly, it's just that the assholes always take the center of attention.
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Frumple

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #7017 on: December 19, 2021, 01:04:34 am »

Like, the reality is that bigotry and various oppressions and atrocities have been buddhist led just about as easily as any other major religion has. Religion that organizes to any great degree and starts accruing secular power of any particular note just tends to be like that. About the only real thing going for buddhism with english speaking/western audiences is that we tend not to really know much or any history about buddhist majority regions, heh.

As to if organized religion been a net good overall, hell if I know. Most potential historical counterexamples to organized religion ended up hunted to extinction or irrelevance by it, ha.

... my personal experience leans real hard otherwise, though. Church going and whatnot always seems to make people worse over time around these parts. Having something unconfirmable folks consider an absolute truth just seems to go poorly. Ends up with people less reasonable, less charitable, more unkind and fractious... I'm irreligious for a reason, heh. Organized religion just seems to get in the way of everything good, including spiritual beliefs but especially everything else...
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Egan_BW

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #7018 on: December 19, 2021, 01:09:40 am »

Religion can't take credit for the acts of compassion it's sometimes attached to, when religion seeks to attach itself to everything in reach.
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MaxTheFox

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #7019 on: December 19, 2021, 04:09:25 am »

Most bad religious people would still be bad if they weren't religious. Fundamentalist homophobes (for example) simply have religion as an excuse to hate gays. Look what the USSR did, an atheist state which had a terrible LGBT rights record. Even when it was technically decriminalized in the 20s, you could be beaten to death (including by the police) for being gay. The Empire did the same except it was a crime for "religious" reasons. Nothing changed. Right now here you probably wouldn't be aside from... certain places if only due to Western influence (definitely for the best).

I have absolutely zero interest in either atheism as a movement or unorganized religion as a spirituality. Neither feels correct to me.
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