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What's your opinion on free will?

I am religious and believe in free will
- 66 (28.3%)
I am religious and do not believe in free will
- 8 (3.4%)
I am not religious and believe in free will
- 104 (44.6%)
I am not religious and do not believe in free will
- 55 (23.6%)

Total Members Voted: 229


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Author Topic: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion  (Read 393260 times)

k33n

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #810 on: February 12, 2015, 04:05:21 pm »

Yes, 'controversial' is not what comes to mind when reading your posts. 'Euphoric' is closer.

Hiding behind high school mindsets and a meme that mocked a mentally ill child with a hat is extremely unbecoming.

And no, citation are not needed. Is perfectly acceptable to logically discuss the consequences of beliefs and ideas without an appeal to authority.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 04:07:23 pm by k33n »
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Teneb

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #811 on: February 12, 2015, 04:11:38 pm »

Yes, 'controversial' is not what comes to mind when reading your posts. 'Euphoric' is closer.

Hiding behind high school mindsets and a meme that mocked a mentally ill child with a hat is extremely unbecoming.

And no, citation are not needed. Is perfectly acceptable to logically discuss the consequences of beliefs and ideas without an appeal to authority.
How can you expect people to accept your argument if you give it ZERO backing? You are basically saying: "this is how things are" without saying why. Maybe it may seem obvious to you, but it clearly isn't for pretty much everyone else.

Also, insulting people isn't the way to go if you actually want them to listen to you, rather than just spark the flames.
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Orange Wizard

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #812 on: February 12, 2015, 04:12:29 pm »

Probably best not to engage in an argument at this point.

k33n, if you're not going to play nice, I'm going to (temporarily) lock the thread.
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k33n

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #813 on: February 12, 2015, 04:14:27 pm »

Probably best not to engage in an argument at this point.

k33n, if you're not going to play nice, I'm going to (temporarily) lock the thread.

Can you tell me when I haven't played nice? Do you not understand where the 'euphoric' meme comes from? Or is your side of the debate excluded from these rules?


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Kassire

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #814 on: February 12, 2015, 04:16:06 pm »

Hiding behind high school mindsets and a meme that mocked a mentally ill child with a hat is extremely unbecoming. Dick move

And no, citation are not needed. Is perfectly acceptable to logically discuss the consequences of beliefs and ideas without an appeal to authority. The more backing you give something, the better
You base a religion on what it had led to in the pass. Considering a lot of these "bad" actions that were done were usually using religion as an excuse for other motives. Along with not necessarily everyone who would say they are a part of a certain religion interprets all of the religious texts and even common ideas of said religions the same. Religion isn't necessarily bad, it's the people that follow it.

Also, don't be so hostile
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ShadowHammer

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #815 on: February 12, 2015, 04:17:30 pm »

With respect to OW's ninja request about not arguing, I would ask that this post not be seen as a criticism or argument, but rather a legitimate attempt to understand k33n. My apologies if any of it seems confrontational.

It also does bad things, but so does every organisation. We have to take the good with the bad, and make sure the bad, repressive bits don't get out of control.
Dwarfy, have I been getting through to you? :P

And k33n, do notice the 'discussion' bit in the thread title. You can of course make a 'Rant-y religion bashing' thread, but I doubt it would stay civil for long...

Just because my points are controversial and I am ready to back them up does not mean that I am ranting or unwilling to discuss. My original point was that spirituality has been co opted by religion, and that spirituality is inherently good while religion is inherently bad.

Like I said earlier, the first two tenants that Arx has said are key to Christianity and are impossible to get anti-human ideas from:

#1 Whosoever believes in me shall not perish, but shall have eternal life.

and

#2 I tell you, the greatest commandment is this: love the Lord your God with all your heart. The second is like it: love your neighbour as you love yourself.

Have both been coherently used to justify horrible actions and restrictive anti-human worldviews.
In addition to Orange Wizard Ninja's citation request [more ninjas -- see below] What is your opinion on other beneficial things that justify "inhuman" action? Is patriotism bad? What about loyalty? And natural resources: are coal and oil inherently evil?
Apologies if this sounds like a straw man; I am just curious where you draw the line, and why.

Additionally, why do you believe spirituality to be inherently good? One could argue that many people use it as an excuse to waste their lives being "spiritual" (note: not saying everyone does, just some, just like very few religious people start wars or riots), rather than contributing to the good of the world, especially since it encompasses so many different things. No doubt someone has asked you this already, so I'll look through the thread and delete this question if I find it, but are you referring to any specific spirituality? If not, an explanation of how you define spirituality would be helpful.

In response to the ninja above,
Yes, 'controversial' is not what comes to mind when reading your posts. 'Euphoric' is closer.

Hiding behind high school mindsets and a meme that mocked a mentally ill child with a hat is extremely unbecoming.

And no, citation are not needed. Is perfectly acceptable to logically discuss the consequences of beliefs and ideas without an appeal to authority.
I believe OW was asking for an example of a time when "love your neighbour" has been explicitly or implicitly used to justify inhuman actions.
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Orange Wizard

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #816 on: February 12, 2015, 04:19:27 pm »

Can you tell me when I haven't played nice? Do you not understand where the 'euphoric' meme comes from? Or is your side of the debate excluded from these rules?
1. Every time we've asked for evidence and you've given us insults and hostility.
2. No, and I don't care.
3. My side is the rules.
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Please don't shitpost, it lowers the quality of discourse
Hard science is like a sword, and soft science is like fear. You can use both to equally powerful results, but even if your opponent disbelieve your stabs, they will still die.

Orange Wizard

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #817 on: February 13, 2015, 04:07:10 pm »

Doubleposting to bump THE UNLOCKENING.

I think we're all happy to continue a discussion now.

I'll also be adding an addendum to the rules about citing sources.
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Please don't shitpost, it lowers the quality of discourse
Hard science is like a sword, and soft science is like fear. You can use both to equally powerful results, but even if your opponent disbelieve your stabs, they will still die.

MonkeyHead

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #818 on: February 13, 2015, 04:12:58 pm »

Doubleposting to bump THE UNLOCKENING.

I think we're all happy to continue a discussion now.

I'll also be adding an addendum to the rules about citing sources.

As long as challenging the credibility, bias or reliability of sources is still OK, then as a rational sceptic I am all for sources being required to back up claims.
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Orange Wizard

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #819 on: February 13, 2015, 04:15:33 pm »

Challenging the credibility of sources is fine. I can't imagine the mess we'd have otherwise.
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Please don't shitpost, it lowers the quality of discourse
Hard science is like a sword, and soft science is like fear. You can use both to equally powerful results, but even if your opponent disbelieve your stabs, they will still die.

Th4DwArfY1

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #820 on: February 13, 2015, 05:32:02 pm »

It also does bad things, but so does every organisation. We have to take the good with the bad, and make sure the bad, repressive bits don't get out of control.
Dwarfy, have I been getting through to you? :P
Nope. I've always believed religion to only be as evil as the person wielding it. I don't mind others following it at all. The only place we differ in this regard is that I decided not to follow religion anymore, no matter the reason, as I personally don't buy into it. You, on the other hand.....:P

I did notice that Dwarfy and I were somehow on the same side of a point. It's disorienting.

W-w-w-what world is this? 0_o
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Ghills

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #821 on: February 13, 2015, 11:06:47 pm »

What denomination is that?

LDS.  Sorry, I should have said.
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Th4DwArfY1

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #822 on: February 13, 2015, 11:08:01 pm »

No problem, the question was already answered anyway.

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Bohandas

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #823 on: February 14, 2015, 12:58:43 am »

Probably best not to engage in an argument at this point.

k33n, if you're not going to play nice, I'm going to (temporarily) lock the thread.

Can you tell me when I haven't played nice? Do you not understand where the 'euphoric' meme comes from?

On January 4th, 2013, Redditor Aalewis submitted a post to the /r/atheism[1] subreddit, which included a quote about his personal experience of being an atheist:
“Just to be clear, I’m not a professional ‘quote maker’. I’m just an atheist teenager who greatly values his intelligence and scientific fact over any silly fiction book written 3,500 years ago. This being said, I am open to any and all criticism.
‘In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.’"

         -KnowYourMeme.com http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/in-this-moment-i-am-euphoric
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Arcvasti

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #824 on: February 14, 2015, 12:59:46 am »

Huh. Didn't even know that meme was a thing. How odd.
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