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I am religious and believe in free will

70 (27.6%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

113 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (24%)

Total Members Voted: 249

[Magmacube_tr]

I still shudder at the notion the Soviets tried to erase the memory of Genghis Khan

Youd need to kill as many people as he did to even get close to success.

Did they? I didn't knew that. How they were going to do it anyways? Kill all historians and burn all history books?

[Loud Whispers]

Did they? I didn't knew that. How they were going to do it anyways? Kill all historians and burn all history books?

Yes, and as SteppeWolf says, go the extra mile by erasing the people and even the idea of the people

[Rolan7]

My opinion on free will is that it's up to every individual.  People should have the right to believe whatever they want.

And if they misinterpret the Bible to give me shit about my presentation, they can die in a fire of their own making.  Because the Bible doesn't even say I'm wrong.

[MrRoboto75]

who's Will and why is he in captivity?

[hector13]

I have a thing. I had two things but I can’t remember one of the things.

Anyway, how come, at least in Christianity, the church is bothered about bodies? They say the important part is the soul, which departs when you die, so why give any shits about the now-empty vessel that held it?

[Arx]

AFAIK you can't actually construct a bulletproof sola scriptura argument against being trans in and of itself. There's a verse in Leviticus against cross-dressing which is probably negated by the Apostles' letter to the Gentile believers in Acts and which gets complicated because you have to deal with gender definitions, but the crux of the matter is really sex. By which I mean the meme question "are traps gay?" is actually a major theological issue*.

Anyway, how come, at least in Christianity, the church is bothered about bodies? They say the important part is the soul, which departs when you die, so why give any shits about the now-empty vessel that held it?

1. Yup, "for in the Kingdom of Heaven there will be neither male nor female, slave nor free" or words to that effect.
2. It's just a question of how the body and soul interact while they're still glued together, really.

* Edit note: no offence intended with the terminology, the juxtaposition of internet meme and serious theological debate is just -- to me -- amusingly incongruous.

[Frumple]

There's also denominations that believe in physical reincarnation/resurrection and whatnot, iirc. The body's still important for them 'cause it's coming back at some point and the soul isn't really separable or whatever. S'kinda' like the ones that believed jesus never actually had a physical form, just... in reverse.

Really, one of the things to remember about christian (or religious in general) scripture is that at the end of the day the rules are basically calvinball. They're whatever a sufficient number of believers say they are, which is why denominational canon, interpretation, and such, are all over the place. There's usually general agreements, but when you start talking particulars, beliefs start running around like a spider on drugs, making odd looking webs.

[chaoticag]

AFAIK you can't actually construct a bulletproof sola scriptura argument against being trans in and of itself. There's a verse in Leviticus against cross-dressing which is probably negated by the Apostles' letter to the Gentile believers in Acts and which gets complicated because you have to deal with gender definitions, but the crux of the matter is really sex. By which I mean the meme question "are traps gay?" is actually a major theological issue.

Not that I'm Jewish, but in addition to that, if you want to add rabbinic authority to the mix, you end up getting way more than 3 genders even on ultra-orthodox opinions.

Anyway, how come, at least in Christianity, the church is bothered about bodies? They say the important part is the soul, which departs when you die, so why give any shits about the now-empty vessel that held it?

1. Yup, "for in the Kingdom of Heaven there will be neither male nor female, slave nor free" or words to that effect.
2. It's just a question of how the body and soul interact while they're still glued together, really.

Any idea what the explanation for the remnants of saints being sacred in Catholicism (and I assume orthodoxy) would be?

[Arx]

There's also denominations that believe in physical reincarnation/resurrection and whatnot, iirc. The body's still important for them 'cause it's coming back at some point and the soul isn't really separable or whatever.

There are denominations that worry about that, yep. But both the Gospels and the Epistles are pretty explicit that what comes after isn't that much based on what happens now (the woman with... seven? husbands comes to mind), so I personally don't think it's a big deal. Also why I have no problem with cremation, I figure God can un-cremate me just as well as he can un-rot me.

AFAIK you can't actually construct a bulletproof sola scriptura argument against being trans in and of itself. There's a verse in Leviticus against cross-dressing which is probably negated by the Apostles' letter to the Gentile believers in Acts and which gets complicated because you have to deal with gender definitions, but the crux of the matter is really sex. By which I mean the meme question "are traps gay?" is actually a major theological issue.

Not that I'm Jewish, but in addition to that, if you want to add rabbinic authority to the mix, you end up getting way more than 3 genders even on ultra-orthodox opinions.

I actually have a Jewish friend who recently came out as trans and doesn't seem to have any family problems with it, and her family is very religious. Haven't actually spoken with her in quite a long time though, covid and all. (Random topically-relevant anecdote)

Any idea what the explanation for the remnants of saints being sacred in Catholicism (and I assume orthodoxy) would be?

I fear I'm too close to being a Protestant to answer that one. Methodism doesn't really have veneration of the saints, and I'm inclined to call it mistaking the messenger for the authority. More of a temporal power thing than a spiritual power thing (or, if you will, a Calvinball rule ).

[chaoticag]

It was the first thing that came to mind since the whole body soul thing was mentioned. I know some Islamic sects have it as well, but I also really can't say why. But even then I don't think it's the body itself so much as the person itself. I guess there are always going to be a lot of people that feel like they need spiritual aid in order to make sure they just really get into the better hereafter.

[McTraveller]

Yes denominations (especially Christian ones) can have fairly different interpretations of scripture. It's not that difficult to categorize some of those interpretations as likely less accurate than others. For example, anyone treating apocalyptic literature (parts of Daniel, Ezekiel, Revelation, etc.) literally needs to have their credentials reconsidered.  Anyone treating allegory (parts of Genesis, Job, likely Jonah, etc.) as history should have their credentials reconsidered.

Genre matters when it comes to interpretation.  So yeah maybe a "bulletproof" sola scriptura isn't possible, but there are definitely interpretations you can pretty safely dismiss.

[Eschar]

I have a thing. I had two things but I can’t remember one of the things.

Anyway, how come, at least in Christianity, the church is bothered about bodies? They say the important part is the soul, which departs when you die, so why give any shits about the now-empty vessel that held it?

Note: Paul is very insistent that the return of Christ will be followed by believers' corpses being transfigured into glorified/purified bodies, and then reunited with their souls. "Disembodied souls floating around forever" is not actually the new testament view of heaven/new heavens.

[Gentlefish]

Can I say, as a Christian, I don't like Paul's writings? He seemed like a very... Angry fellow.

Doesn't help his admonishment of Greek pederasty was warped into a general anti-homosexual thing as well. Seeing as Jesus fulfilled the prophecy of the covenant of the hebrews and YHWH meaning they were no longer beholden to the old rules (you know. Leviticus and such. Deuteronomy and all that.)

[Rolan7]

I hate to necro this (and I agree with Gentlefish - Paul should be treated like a human.  He wasn't canonically possessed by God, he was just an apostle sharing his first century opinions.  The apostles were, textually, very fallible).
...
Covid pulled me away from my faith, which was... is, a faith in nature.  Specifically, natural forces we don't understand.  Literally, gods of the gaps.
Being ununderstandable didn't stop me from taking comfort from them.  To speak, even pray to a certain aspect helped me acknowledge and think about that aspect.  To focus my thoughts and act rationally.

I used to be exposed to the elements so often.  Of course I wanted to see that as a rite.  Even later, safe at home, I would pray thanks for every rainfall.  To be caught in the rain was a transformative experience, if a bit gross.

I desperately need a pilgrimage.  I need to stand on the mountains.  I've greeted and saluted the sun, but it's not the same.  The sun is a lousy, vicious god.  I need to feel the wind, and see the dizzying heights, and feel the rain wash over me.  I need to - to hear the thunder, and flee terrified from the lightning, as I so often did.  To be caught on the road and huddle under an embankment, wet and grinning rapturously as I hear the unpatterned rain.  Feel the thunder bounce off the dirt.  The water washing over me.

I will, before long, walk through the sleeping trees and see the ice hanging from them.  I'll feel the snow crystals crumble under my boots and stop for a few minutes.  A perfect, frozen moment that lasts forever.

Edit: I did go wading a couple weeks ago, I should do that more often:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[wierd]

Jealous of the rocks.

That usually means the water is clear, and reasonably clean.


All the streams here are mud and sand, and turbid as hell.  Will ruin your clothes to go wading in them.


As for the desire to go experience the real wild; I share the sentiment, but not on religious terms.  Rather, I venerate the natural world as the actually real world, that exists outside of human conceptions of what is right, proper, or necessary-- It does not give two fucks about what humans think.

People have historically be terrified of that aspect of the natural world, but I personally revel in it.  I wish I could stay there permanently.