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Author Topic: Horrible, dwarf-killing monsters from the past  (Read 1853 times)

Iapetus

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Horrible, dwarf-killing monsters from the past
« on: January 25, 2015, 10:07:06 am »

What would be the best way to mod carp and elephants to return them to their former glory?
(And by "glory" I mean "totally OP fortress-destroying monstrosities).

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Engraved on the floor is a well-designed image of a kobold and a carp.  The kobold is making a plaintive gesture.  The carp is laughing.

Ruludos

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Re: Horrible, dwarf-killing monsters from the past
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2015, 11:10:37 pm »

As far as increasing lethality is concerned, the easiest way is to make them more aggressive. A vanilla elephant will easily take down a non-military dwarf, but as a wild creature they are easy to spook and will rarely attack a dwarf of their own violation. Carp have the same problem; they will run from dwarves rather than attack them. [OPPOSED_TO_LIFE] or [PRONE_TO_RAGE:100] will solve that nicely. If you find their combat performance lacking, increasing their size is an easy way to make them both stronger and tougher. An alternative is natural skill in unarmed combat; dodging, biting, striking and so forth.
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vjmdhzgr

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Re: Horrible, dwarf-killing monsters from the past
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2015, 01:15:26 am »

With carp you'd probably want to add [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:STRENGTH:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000], [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:AGILITY:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000], AND [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:TOUGHNESS:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000]. Then add [ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:1500] and an [ATTACK_VELOCITY_MODIFIER:1000] to their bite attack. They were so powerful back in the day because they gained swimming skill, and attributes worked very differently so any skill gain would increase one of the only three attribute. Then attacks had some system where they did damage in numbers rather than calculations from material properties and velocity and all that stuff. Carp only had the default bite attack which was about three times as powerful as the standard punch which is what dwarves used most of the time. So adding this should buff their attributes and bite attack back to the point they used to be at. For elephants I don't really know. Elephants were powerful because size used to give big, direct bonuses to damage and damage resistance which can't be replicated very well. I suppose a [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:STRENGTH:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000] and [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:TOUGHNESS:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000] would kind of go towards that goal, but it's probably not enough. Another horrible monster that unfortunately got nerfed was the giant sponge. They used to be completely unkillable, but when pulping was added it became possible to kill them. I've heard that adding [PREVENTS_PARENT_COLLAPSE] to their body would work, but I'm doubtful. Anyway a good tool to do so was added recently, which would be to just add [SET_BP_GROUP:BY_TYPE:BODY][BP_ADD_TYPE:PREVENTS_PARENT_COLLAPSE].
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Iapetus

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Re: Horrible, dwarf-killing monsters from the past
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2015, 02:52:01 pm »

They were so powerful back in the day because they gained swimming skill, and attributes worked very differently so any skill gain would increase one of the only three attribute.
Would giving them [CAN_LEARN] and [SWIMS_LEARNED] recreate that effect?

I remember they (and other fish) used to tear chunks off their victims.  Is there a way to enable that?

Regarding elephants: I've seen lore describing them eating dwarves.  Did they actually do that?  If so, I suppose they ought to get [LARGE_PREDATOR].
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Engraved on the floor is a well-designed image of a kobold and a carp.  The kobold is making a plaintive gesture.  The carp is laughing.

IndigoFenix

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Re: Horrible, dwarf-killing monsters from the past
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2015, 02:59:11 pm »

I just made this for a mod.  Note that it will only appear in caverns, if you want it to show up above ground then add the relevant biome tags.
They are basically regular carp with teeth and more aggressive personalities.  They also have BUILDINGDESTROYER, which will have no effect unless they are given the ability to live without breathing.

Spoiler: Ancient Carp (click to show/hide)

pisskop

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Re: Horrible, dwarf-killing monsters from the past
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2015, 03:01:04 pm »

I just made this for a mod.  Note that it will only appear in caverns, if you want it to show up above ground then add the relevant biome tags.
They are basically regular carp with teeth and more aggressive personalities.  They also have BUILDINGDESTROYER, which will have no effect unless they are given the ability to live without breathing.

Spoiler: Ancient Carp (click to show/hide)
Can't they destroy aquatic structures?  Grates, closed floodgates, etc?
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IndigoFenix

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Re: Horrible, dwarf-killing monsters from the past
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2015, 03:06:30 pm »

I just made this for a mod.  Note that it will only appear in caverns, if you want it to show up above ground then add the relevant biome tags.
They are basically regular carp with teeth and more aggressive personalities.  They also have BUILDINGDESTROYER, which will have no effect unless they are given the ability to live without breathing.

Spoiler: Ancient Carp (click to show/hide)
Can't they destroy aquatic structures?  Grates, closed floodgates, etc?
Ah, yes, I guess they can do that.

vjmdhzgr

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Re: Horrible, dwarf-killing monsters from the past
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2015, 06:43:26 pm »

They were so powerful back in the day because they gained swimming skill, and attributes worked very differently so any skill gain would increase one of the only three attribute.
Would giving them [CAN_LEARN] and [SWIMS_LEARNED] recreate that effect?

I remember they (and other fish) used to tear chunks off their victims.  Is there a way to enable that?

Regarding elephants: I've seen lore describing them eating dwarves.  Did they actually do that?  If so, I suppose they ought to get [LARGE_PREDATOR].
No [CAN_LEARN] wouldn't help because raising swimming doesn't actually train any attributes anymore. I think what i suggested for carp is pretty good. for the tearing chunks off of victims, that was because they had a really powerful bite and very high attributes so again, that should show up again.
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Button

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Re: Horrible, dwarf-killing monsters from the past
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2015, 11:21:46 am »

You could replicate the "more powerful the longer they're on the map" effect on carp by giving them a self-targeting interaction that raises their stats?
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Naryar

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Re: Horrible, dwarf-killing monsters from the past
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2015, 11:37:33 am »

Just remove BENIGN from their entry. It should be sufficiently fun. (Unicorns are like that)

Of course you can go the opposite, less subtle way and just add that to carp

[OPPOSED_TO_LIFE][LARGE_PREDATOR][NOFEAR][NOEXERT][NOSTUN][PRONE_TO_RAGE:10]

like i did.

Maybe I should have added CRAZED just to drive the point in ? I'm not sure.