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Author Topic: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art  (Read 223294 times)

Uzu Bash

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #285 on: February 07, 2016, 10:36:22 pm »

It doesn't stipulate. In principle it should be irrelevant because you'll always have a technique to evade or counter every attack. In practice you'll need it at early levels, and you can wear more of it because you aren't burdened with weapons. In the late game, when the armor has kind of grown on you and no longer encumbers, it's still easy to make mistakes (esp if you're getting cocky about your ability,) and it's good to have it to compensate for those times. If you don't have armor, you'll want it.
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Random_Dragon

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #286 on: February 07, 2016, 10:49:37 pm »

What about armor? What are Kisat Dur's principles on that?

More things to steal via grab-and-jump? I at one point rendered an enemy half-naked doing nothing but that. Strangely they eventually went "no quarter" even though I never harmed them. :V
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NRDL

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #287 on: February 07, 2016, 10:51:41 pm »

As someone with a vested interest in creating the strongest unarmed fighters in every world I make, what are your guys' top methods of rapidly training striking, kicking, dodger and wrestling? 
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Max™

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #288 on: February 07, 2016, 11:30:38 pm »

Starting with striking points, kicking I mostly use to skullstomp so it isn't as important to me, wrestling I just mangle unconscious foes, dodging I do wrestling training against live foes, or grab a hold of like 6 cats.
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Broseph Stalin

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #289 on: February 08, 2016, 01:52:54 am »

What about armor? What are Kisat Dur's principles on that?
Overcome, Bypass, Exploit, or Remove.

Overcome: Armor can be overcome by blunt weapons. A Kisat Dur expert is nothing less than a blunt weapon. With strength and experience it's not impossible or difficult to smash bones through armor with punches or kicks.

Bypass: Armor is cold comfort when your arm is bending the wrong way. Wrestling is not stopped by armor, break their bones, crush their throats, and gouge out their eyes. Further, not all armor is created equal. Gauntlets can be smashed with a bit of skill and force and the mail that covers the neck won't stop a punch.

Exploit:Armor makes the enemy slow. Sometimes it's advantageous (or just fun) to run just slightly faster than they can and slow down as they slow down. When they collapse in exhaustion break them at your leisure.

Remove: Grabbing and dodging allows a practitioner to quickly tear off armor and open the enemy up for attack.

Fruitsbrain Weapon-tosser

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #290 on: February 08, 2016, 07:11:36 am »

As someone with a vested interest in creating the strongest unarmed fighters in every world I make, what are your guys' top methods of rapidly training striking, kicking, dodger and wrestling?
Enemies that can't give into pain make for great training dummies. Night Creatures specifically make for good punching bags, so just break/fracture an arm and leg, and then either go to town with auto-attacks or sit next to it and (,) or (.) away while it wildly flails away at you to train your skill of choice.
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Max™

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #291 on: February 08, 2016, 07:23:32 am »

Note that most punching bags aren't vastly more lethal than you are, night creatures tend to be really nasty unless you manage to remove limbs and stuff. Once they start grappling you it's gonna suck.
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Uzu Bash

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #292 on: February 08, 2016, 07:28:36 am »

As someone with a vested interest in creating the strongest unarmed fighters in every world I make, what are your guys' top methods of rapidly training striking, kicking, dodger and wrestling? 
Bar brawls. Just don't bite or do any lethal holds. Be ready to yield if they get a lucky shot and collapse your lungs. Give them a chance to yield after inflicting any status effect, including KO. When you get stronger, avoid aiming at head or neck.

EDIT: I should mention that if you're using auto-attack, you need more armor than most, because you're essentially forfeiting sound tactical decision-making. Auto-attack isn't advisable at all; haven't you noticed how poorly it works out for NPC's?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 07:32:04 am by Uzu Bash »
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Fruitsbrain Weapon-tosser

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #293 on: February 08, 2016, 07:51:52 am »

Note that most punching bags aren't vastly more lethal than you are, night creatures tend to be really nasty unless you manage to remove limbs and stuff. Once they start grappling you it's gonna suck.
Yeah, I guess bullying Night Creatures is more mid/highish-level training than anything. Not sure what would make the best low level fights.
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ArKFallen

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #294 on: February 08, 2016, 11:05:06 am »

Note that most punching bags aren't vastly more lethal than you are, night creatures tend to be really nasty unless you manage to remove limbs and stuff. Once they start grappling you it's gonna suck.
Yeah, I guess bullying Night Creatures is more mid/highish-level training than anything. Not sure what would make the best low level fights.
Wear full clothing, sneak up to a group of small not-birds, and grapple all of the ones you can reach. Lay down to train armor-user/shield-user, either way you will train dodge as well. I recommend getting shields before you do this otherwise your dodge will get too high to safely train shield user.
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Graknorke

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #295 on: February 08, 2016, 07:13:08 pm »

You could still train shield user by changing your combat settings.
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UristMcDwarf

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #296 on: February 20, 2016, 05:20:49 pm »

How do you catch a punch?
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Random_Dragon

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #297 on: February 20, 2016, 05:36:04 pm »

How do you catch a punch?

Wait until an attack is initiated, hope you can identify what attack it is (higher observer skill is your friend), hit "q" to put away your weapon/shield, go to wrestlemania menu, select "wrestle with left/right hand," grab the offending hand. Or foot, if it's a kick. o3o
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Uzu Bash

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #298 on: February 20, 2016, 06:03:26 pm »

Striking at whatever they're attacking will deflect them even if you miss. If you're already grabbing one guy's fist, and you aren't going to dodge or jump, you can do multi-attacks on any other incoming fists/feet/teeth. That will burn through your endurance faster, though.
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Random_Dragon

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #299 on: March 13, 2016, 06:28:31 am »

From the archives of Zumdol Tamun, practitioner and scholar of armed and unarmed combat:

There are many different concepts that define, collectively, the nature of combat in all its forms. There are essential fundamental elements, broad facets and contexts, principles and techniques for various overlapping contexts.

I will first list certain principles I deem minutiae. These are concepts that present certain principles useful for specific contexts, as well as concepts that simply highlight potential options, along with their pros and cons.

Rith Asmur (The Weak Grasp):

An armed opponent is a more confident for and potentially a greater hazard, whether you are armed or unarmed. For this reason, it is common to prioritize disarming over incapacitating such a foe. However, these goals are not mutually exclusive.

Consider the limb holding an opponent's weapon. Any disabling strike to said limb can potentially disarm the foe, but such a strike must be applied correctly. The shoulder and elbow are tempting targets, easier to hit than the hand itself, but a wound there is less likely to be definitive. You do not want a gladiator's wound, a slash into the shoulder that gives a deceptively bloody appearance while serving no purpose.

A strike to the hand itself, or even the fingers, directs force against a more vulnerable target, and even if it fails to disarm the foe it may incapacitate the target anyway. This allows techniques to potentially disarm and/or incapacitate in the same action, making the technique more efficient via more potentially favorable outcomes.

Ramac Duto (The Lizard's Tail):

This covers a principle that is useful to exploit when it occurs, but is not deliberately exploitable barring risk of death.

Combat always entails some risk to life and limb, and the latter inspires great dread in any reasonable being. Wounds may heal and bones may mend, but to lose a limb is to be made unwhole. However, it is not always an outcome to be feared.

A savage foe may seek to rend flesh with a wicked bite. Or a foe might direct a solid strike to a vulnerable target. If a grave wound is inflicted that shatters the bone, you may be rendered at the mercy of your foe. But the body is adept at handling certain forms of shock, and it is possible to fight on even after a clean amputation. Should you answer this injury with a more decisive strike, you may well live to fight again.

This is especially useful when stricken by a fearsome beast. Should a foe's jaws find their mark, it is natural instinct to follow through with an effort to savage the victim further, and make the injury more grievous. This can have deadly consequences.

Uzin Usan (The Iron Heart):

A skilled combatant may notice signs of a fatal blow, of strikes that will lead to death even if they are not immediately incapacitating. But senses can deceive, especially when the observer is the would-be victim.

A solid blow to the heart of lungs has certain effects on the body, presenting signs that you may interpret as a mortal wound. But most can live on even with injuries that are effectively bruises, and even a truly severe blow to the lung is not as dire as it might feel. If you received a strike that did not mar your flesh, do not yet resign yourself to fate.

Kose Ozi (The Swift Arm):

Most students of martial arts are concerned with close combat, whether armed or unarmed. To strike at range is given little thought, or sometimes treated as outside the scope of their training. But in this case I will demonstrate a concept proving this false.

Before contact is made and your full range of experience can serve you, a confrontation may start such that ranged weapons are an option. But to loose an arrow or bolt presents a moment of vulnerability, which may be exploited if your shot fails to incapacitate the foe.

Casting missiles at the enemy by hand is sometimes looked down upon by those experienced in archery, but there are contexts in which this is the superior option. The body readies itself faster, with movement swift and sure. It is instinctive, whereas archery relies on learned motion.

Nemen Jathrur (The Righteous Hawk):

There are foes, both man and beast, that do not succumb to single decisive blow. Whether you seek to incapacitate or kill them, they may prove impossible to defeat without repeated wounds and constant risk. But there are ways to neutralize a foe without even incapacitating them, and they can be made as decisively as a killing blow against a mundane foe.

To strike the lungs can deal a mortal blow, but it is also debilitating in its own way. An opponent straining to breathe is unable to act and react as swiftly and surely.

Injury of the bowels can hinder any creature susceptible to a low blow of that sort, and nearly any being that partakes of food is susceptible. If the injury is at least of moderate severity, the creature's reaction shall delay and distract them.

If your foe has a head or anything akin to it, there remains an option even if head wounds prove indecisive. With any life of such complexity, the mind and body are linked in a manner that can be exploited. A solid blow to the neck or farther down the spine can still prove useful.

Lastly, no matter how many limbs a creature may stand on, being grounded is a severe detriment to their ability to fight. This is the literal and metaphorical foundation of such a creature's method of combat, and removing it limits their options.

Nońi Thil (The Lost Sword):

If you are armed, you may see yourself as having an advantage. The wise combatant already knows to use all weapons available to them, natural or otherwise. But even those wise ones may forget to use a given weapon to its fullest extent.

A wise swordsman may see fit to cut, thrust, or both as the situation warrants. But they may fail to use techniques relying on the pommel or the flat of the blade, and miss the rare instances when doing so is superior to their favored methods.

But it isn't merely a matter of opportunity. Efficiency is key to using your options to their fullest. You may notice a moment where a little-used technique will land with greater certainty, but how likely will it have a desirable effect? Exploiting attacks of opportunity require balance between the action and the result.

Honu Asi (The Blunt Spear):

There are instances where the little-used techniques are not only useful, but superior or even the only viable option. Consider a hardened foe, one that may even be invulnerable against your best techniques. but you may discover a single method that has some useful effect.

If surrender or flight is not an option, all that remains is to use what works, either until your options change or until one of you is victorious.

If a beast of bronze withstands a copper spear, but a strike with the shaft marks its form, then the strong shall yield to the weak, if the weak can but persevere.
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