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Author Topic: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art  (Read 110575 times)

bahihs

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2015, 06:03:06 pm »

Broseph Stalin, can you please post the stats/skills of your example practitioners (and their opponents) so we can get an idea of the proficiency necessary to successfully execute these techniques?

All done with a legendary dwarf. That just means strikes and grabs are more likely to connect, a novice could hypothetically do all of this.

Ah...that's good news (especially, of course, if they were also fighting legendary weapon users as their opponents); if you need to be legendary to pull these moves off; straight-forward weapons would be a better choice for combat. I'm going to do some testing of my own in arena.
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Broseph Stalin

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2015, 06:07:45 pm »


Ah...that's good news (especially, of course, if they were also fighting legendary weapon users as their opponents); if you need to be legendary to pull these moves off; straight-forward weapons would be a better choice for combat. I'm going to do some testing of my own in arena.

Unarmed combat with an armed enemy is very dangerous, Kisat Dur doesn't make your enemies suddenly ineffectual. A novice would have some difficulty trying to catch an incoming strike so dodging out of the way is probably smarter than trying to preform a Korumid Abod. If however you succeed in making the catch the actual disarmament would be as easy as if you were a master. 

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2015, 06:15:15 pm »

I've tried out Kisat Dur in adventure mode, hero human. Slaughtered a whole lot of goblins untill one lasher brained me in the first turn of combat. Suffered only light bruising.
But for fighting more than one enemy at once, you need a weapon to finish off these who gave into pain. The only way to kill quickly with Kisat Dur is choking them to death, and that's... Well, still not quick enough.
Of course you can also never choke people so they don't enter lethal mode and beat everyone unconscious, THEN start finishing them off one by one.

Breaking wrists OP. Wrist-grabs almost always connect, they rarely break out, it cancels attacks and causes them to pass out. Out of tens of goblins I've disabled by wrist-breaking, only one continued fighting. And he was a civilian, so I guess lucky stats.
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Broseph Stalin

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2015, 06:20:16 pm »

I've tried out Kisat Dur in adventure mode, hero human. Slaughtered a whole lot of goblins untill one lasher brained me in the first turn of combat. Suffered only light bruising.
But for fighting more than one enemy at once, you need a weapon to finish off these who gave into pain. The only way to kill quickly with Kisat Dur is choking them to death, and that's... Well, still not quick enough.
Of course you can also never choke people so they don't enter lethal mode and beat everyone unconscious, THEN start finishing them off one by one.

Breaking wrists OP. Wrist-grabs almost always connect, they rarely break out, it cancels attacks and causes them to pass out. Out of tens of goblins I've disabled by wrist-breaking, only one continued fighting. And he was a civilian, so I guess lucky stats.

Stomp on their neck or throat. The neck causes suffocation the throat causes bleeding. 

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2015, 06:26:43 pm »

Both neck and throat are defended by armor, and we're talking about hero-level characters. A master can crush windpipes left and right through any volume of steel, but an ordinary warrior...
Of course, after breaking their wrist you can simply grab their breastplates and throw them away, but that' still 3 turns.
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bahihs

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2015, 06:28:37 pm »

Sodel Gakit (Shield Thief)

Once Sodel Ar is performed successfully, the practitioner need not immediately maintain possession of the shield. Instead, the practitioner may simply use the opponents shield against him while he is still holding on to it.

((It seems, if you are grabbing a shield, even one still wielded by your opponent, you can actually use it to block your opponent's attacks! Of course, this is only automatic blocking and not manual block))

Also, people, people...what about kicks? What about biting?
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Arcvasti

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2015, 06:31:28 pm »

I've tried out Kisat Dur in adventure mode, hero human. Slaughtered a whole lot of goblins untill one lasher brained me in the first turn of combat. Suffered only light bruising.
But for fighting more than one enemy at once, you need a weapon to finish off these who gave into pain. The only way to kill quickly with Kisat Dur is choking them to death, and that's... Well, still not quick enough.
Of course you can also never choke people so they don't enter lethal mode and beat everyone unconscious, THEN start finishing them off one by one.

Breaking wrists OP. Wrist-grabs almost always connect, they rarely break out, it cancels attacks and causes them to pass out. Out of tens of goblins I've disabled by wrist-breaking, only one continued fighting. And he was a civilian, so I guess lucky stats.

Stomp on their neck or throat. The neck causes suffocation the throat causes bleeding.

I find successive heavy punches to the head of a helpless target are pretty lethal. Pinching the throat works pretty well too.
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bahihs

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2015, 06:35:02 pm »

I've tried out Kisat Dur in adventure mode, hero human. Slaughtered a whole lot of goblins untill one lasher brained me in the first turn of combat. Suffered only light bruising.
But for fighting more than one enemy at once, you need a weapon to finish off these who gave into pain. The only way to kill quickly with Kisat Dur is choking them to death, and that's... Well, still not quick enough.
Of course you can also never choke people so they don't enter lethal mode and beat everyone unconscious, THEN start finishing them off one by one.

Breaking wrists OP. Wrist-grabs almost always connect, they rarely break out, it cancels attacks and causes them to pass out. Out of tens of goblins I've disabled by wrist-breaking, only one continued fighting. And he was a civilian, so I guess lucky stats.

Stomp on their neck or throat. The neck causes suffocation the throat causes bleeding.

I find successive heavy punches to the head of a helpless target are pretty lethal. Pinching the throat works pretty well too.

Have to agree with this, knock them out then leave to bleed is very effective
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Broseph Stalin

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2015, 06:36:27 pm »

Both neck and throat are defended by armor, and we're talking about hero-level characters. A master can crush windpipes left and right through any volume of steel, but an ordinary warrior...
Of course, after breaking their wrist you can simply grab their breastplates and throw them away, but that' still 3 turns.
You need rigid armor to protect from blunt damage and plate doesn't cover the neck. An untrained dwarf with no special attributes can pulp a human neck or throat through full steel armor.

bahihs

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2015, 06:40:48 pm »

Is there anyway to stand on your opponent when he is down? (so he cant get back up)
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TheFlame52

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2015, 06:42:16 pm »

Once Sodel Ar is performed successfully, the practitioner need not immediately maintain possession of the shield. Instead, the practitioner may simply use the opponents shield against him while he is still holding on to it.
It seems I've been using this screen a lot lately.



While yes, this is a very good demonstration of Kisat Dur used by the opponent, he used my sword to parry my attack while I was still holding it.

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2015, 06:47:41 pm »

Is there anyway to stand on your opponent when he is down? (so he cant get back up)
You might try jumping. If he's too big to be propelled by the force of the impact, you might end up on the same tile. I'll have to try if going prone allows you to move to the same tile as a hostile creature.
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bahihs

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2015, 07:12:26 pm »

Is there anyway to stand on your opponent when he is down? (so he cant get back up)
You might try jumping. If he's too big to be propelled by the force of the impact, you might end up on the same tile. I'll have to try if going prone allows you to move to the same tile as a hostile creature.

Can confirm, that, no, this does not work. (Whether you are prone, your opponent, or both of you, you cannot move into an enemy tile without it result in an unaimed attack)

On the bright side, I found out that if you throw someone then walk into them while they are in air, they will collide with you. If only there was a way to control how far/which direction you threw people (then you could throw people in to other people, trees, rivers etc.)
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Broseph Stalin

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2015, 07:16:16 pm »

(Tosidcabnul) The Armored Fool

It is true that punches and kicks will be stopped by an enemy's defenses but the skilled practitioner is not hindered. It is plate armor that prevents injury fighting the armored foe is about bypassing or removing this defense. Most wrestling techniques are unaffected by armor, a simple Asasokab can render the thousands spent on steel plate armor worthless. Further Ostlurit technique retains it's deadly efficiency for no rigid armor may protect the neck. An enemy who is inexperienced with armor is exceptionally slow and very susceptible to the Sodel Ar and counterstrikes that may follow.

Also in the warriors arsenal is the Tosidcabnul. In this technique the practitioner grabs at a piece of armor and before the grab connects they dodge. The result is the practitioner moving out of range and taking the armor with them. The opponent now stumbles about foolishly without their armor and is ripe for the Zimeshabod.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 09:10:21 pm by Broseph Stalin »
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Broseph Stalin

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2015, 07:17:19 pm »


Can confirm, that, no, this does not work. (Whether you are prone, your opponent, or both of you, you cannot move into an enemy tile without it result in an unaimed attack)

On the bright side, I found out that if you throw someone then walk into them while they are in air, they will collide with you. If only there was a way to control how far/which direction you threw people (then you could throw people in to other people, trees, rivers etc.)

Korumid Abod is directional, I've enjoyed using it to send foes flying off of mountains.
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