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Author Topic: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art  (Read 110255 times)

Eric Blank

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #480 on: June 04, 2018, 01:41:54 pm »

But thats not always true if you have mods that add additional types of daggers.
Ive found the most useful skill is simply dodge. With higher skills you can even set your fighting stance to stand ground and attacks you cant stop with wrestling will usually miss regardless.

Recently however, ive had night trolls successfully catch my own attempted attacks, which they were not aiming for when i made them, grappling my hand/foot/weapon and using that to tackle me to the ground or disarm me. On several occasions this was fatal or nearly fatal, as i just couldnt find a way to escape their clutches or kill them quickly at that point.
So beware, either ive not been paying attention or Toady has given the AI some new options they can take full advantage of in certain circumstances
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Aydjile

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #481 on: August 03, 2018, 11:54:32 am »

This is the best game guide i've read as in ever! This sacred knowledge alone will inspire to play a brawler. Thank you kind sage for your wisdom.
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Castlecliff

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #482 on: March 18, 2019, 03:31:31 am »

This old nut.
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Grand Sage

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #483 on: March 18, 2019, 09:15:13 am »

More like an old nugget of gold ;) I've been wanting to write a guide for DF swordsplay or something like that ever since I first read this. But as so often, "Real life" got in the way, and I lost my entusiasm... Maybe some other time :)
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Superdorf

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #484 on: March 18, 2019, 08:46:25 pm »

Mm, swordplay... that'd be nice. It'd overlap a lot with the techniques mentioned here, though; swordplay isn't all that different from fistwork, once you get down to it.
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Grand Sage

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #485 on: March 19, 2019, 11:31:05 am »

I suppose it partially depends on the choice of weapon and equipment. Shortsword and shield? Two-handed sword (or, for dwarfs i guess longsword)? Shortsword and Dagger? With heavy steel armor or in some light leather?

incidentally, a lot of the wrestling stuff can be done with "lower arm" grabs, so having weapons in hand still permits a lot of the Kisat dur moves, yes.
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Broseph Stalin

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #486 on: March 19, 2019, 01:09:31 pm »

Pretty much, I thought about adding weapon stuff but there aren't many principles that work with unarmed but don't work  with weapons. The only difference is you inflict more damage with your strikes and have at least one less hand for wrestling.

Grand Sage

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #487 on: March 19, 2019, 02:49:19 pm »

Well, the whole decapitation/dismembering aspect of sharp weapons add an epicness factor to it, if nothing else. Also, Parrying is a thing that you cant do in Kisat dur. and blocking. And I imagine there might be a lot more Dodging going on, since you won't be locked in some wrestling move half of the time.

These are just stay thoughts for now though. If i get at anything that resembles moves, I'll probably start a new topic for that. This is, after all, your thread, Broseph ;) 
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Random_Dragon

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #488 on: March 19, 2019, 03:15:02 pm »

Some of the principles of various historical styles of armed combat can be applied admittedly, aside from what's abstracted away or affected by quirks in game mechanics.

One thing that makes an armed style hard to untangle from Kisat Dur however, is that even when unarmed you have little reason not to enter combat in armor, and even armed combat will make use of grappling whenever it's practical. You can see a parallel with various schools of medieval swordsmanship, which often cover how techniques differ between duels unarmored vs. in armor. Armored combat often led to grappling and other techniques beyond the use of a weapon, not only because a sword is generally not the best weapon to use against armor, but also as it's simply practical to use everything at your disposal

So ultimately, a comprehensive and practical dwarven equivalent to Harnischfechten would still make use of any principles in conventional Kisat Dur that remain practical while armed and armored. To expand on it and add equivalents to Blossfechten, we'll likely need to wait until martial art support exists in DF, though modding would allow some expansion to this already.

For example, the pommel strike in vanilla DF is rather underwhelming but no slower than normal attacks, so while it might not do much it might still be slightly better for striking an enemy in the helm than trying to cut or stab. But with some rebalancing you could rework it into something closer to a mordhau, making it riskier to use but much more effective for stunning the target or breaking their neck.

Castlecliff

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #489 on: March 29, 2019, 10:38:25 pm »

Oh yeah i just know it belongs on front page for all the new people joining so i necro'd it
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The Tyrant

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #490 on: April 03, 2019, 09:20:40 pm »

Wow. This is pretty neat! After reading this I made an unarmed cougarman and cave-in striked a goblin hammerwoman into a stagnent pond, where she proceded to drown while I dealt with her friends  8)
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Urist McVoyager

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #491 on: April 17, 2019, 05:19:23 pm »

Back this up with some throwing and you can use everything at your disposal. Take down an opponent, strip their weapons and armor from them, and you can throw whatever you don't want to keep. Personally, I go for a semi-large race like Tigerman and train up to fight Roman style. I make spears (I use crafting mods like Adventurecraft) and fill a quiver, then whenever I enter a fight, throwing is my opener.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 05:21:03 pm by Urist McVoyager »
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Superdorf

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #492 on: April 17, 2019, 05:27:34 pm »

Mm, spear-throwing... now I want to go and roll up a Homeric warlord. Such potential!
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Urist McVoyager

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #493 on: April 17, 2019, 05:31:53 pm »

I know. I prefer Roman style since you can't do formations like phalanxes in-game yet. Roman style isn't necessarily the best for one on one brawls, but it does give you options. Big shield for blocking arrows and stopping attacks, and throwing weapons for high speed ranged combat. You don't get locked into reloading when you do it that way. And then a sword, for a variety of attacks for dealing with different situations.
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Bumber

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Re: Kisat Dur: the Dwarven Martial Art
« Reply #494 on: April 20, 2019, 08:42:28 am »

Mm, spear-throwing... now I want to go and roll up a Homeric warlord. Such potential!

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