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Which graphics set should the Modest Mod be uploaded in next?

Afro
- 0 (0%)
Duerer
- 8 (7.4%)
GemSet
- 8 (7.4%)
Ironhand
- 27 (25%)
Jolly Bastion
- 5 (4.6%)
Mayday
- 8 (7.4%)
Obsidian
- 12 (11.1%)
Spacefox
- 27 (25%)
Wanderlust
- 7 (6.5%)
Other (please specify)
- 6 (5.6%)

Total Members Voted: 108


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Author Topic: Modest Mod v0.42.06-1  (Read 60896 times)

Button

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Re: Modest Mod v0.40.24-1
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2015, 12:44:35 pm »

No, they aren't. That's an unrelated pathing bug.
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Re: Modest Mod v0.40.24-1
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2015, 05:12:13 pm »

Aboveground, non-evil creatures that are tameable by non-elves (i.e. have [PET] instead of [PET_EXOTIC]) in worldgen are generally those that have been systematically domesticated in real life. So, I removed [PET] from grizzly bears etc., because those are wild animals that have only been "tamed" on an individual basis. This is the same reason that I gave [PET] to elephants: humans have domesticated elephants in real life, so clearly they are domesticable by non-elves.

But tame bears are a thing in real life. Plus I think most people here would agree that bear cavalry is pretty cool in its own right.
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Re: Modest Mod v0.40.24-1
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2015, 05:49:21 pm »

Yes, but so are tame hyenas, tame cheetahs, tame lions, tame crocodiles...

The question isn't if individuals have ever been tamed, but if the species has ever been domesticated. Camels and elephants have been domesticated. Bears, hyenas, cheetahs, lions, and crocodiles haven't.
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Re: Modest Mod v0.40.24-1
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2015, 07:11:16 am »

Hmm, sorry to be nagging once more but some would argue that cats have never been really domesticated (for a number of reasons); and anyway, the difference between "tame" and "domesticate" doesn't really exist in various languages (Spanish, French, etc.) which makes the distinction all the blurrier. So at the end of the day it is more of a design choice and it's pretty clear Toady made it when he enabled crocodile/bear/lion taming in the vanilla raws.
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Re: Modest Mod v0.40.24-1
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2015, 11:58:08 am »

Yes, but so are tame hyenas, tame cheetahs, tame lions, tame crocodiles...

The question isn't if individuals have ever been tamed, but if the species has ever been domesticated. Camels and elephants have been domesticated. Bears, hyenas, cheetahs, lions, and crocodiles haven't.

I agree with this sentiment. Elves, not Dwarves, are the nature lovers and Dwarves should not be able to tame certain animals.
BUT - Toady did allow it in vanilla DF.
So perhaps you can add a Modest Module on allowing/not allowing certain species taming?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 12:03:10 pm by Ostar »
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Re: Modest Mod v0.40.24-1
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2015, 06:39:50 pm »

Hmm, sorry to be nagging once more but some would argue that cats have never been really domesticated (for a number of reasons); and anyway, the difference between "tame" and "domesticate" doesn't really exist in various languages (Spanish, French, etc.) which makes the distinction all the blurrier. So at the end of the day it is more of a design choice and it's pretty clear Toady made it when he enabled crocodile/bear/lion taming in the vanilla raws.

Crocodiles and lions are not tamable during worldgen in the vanilla raws. Bears are. I brought bears in line with crocodiles and lions.

The only in-game effects of this change are that you won't run into tame bears in towns in adventure mode, and that if you go to war with humans, they will not arrive with war bears.
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Re: Modest Mod v0.40.24-1
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2015, 12:01:11 pm »

I've also been thinking about that automatic mod merger program PeredexisErrant gave up on a while ago. ("Gave up" is too strong a word, really - he was satisfied with a less full-featured version than I would have been, is all.) Plant Fixes is composed of a number of small features, so that it might be more appropriate to break it up into multiple modules - but then you'd only be able to install one of those modules, using the existing "copy and replace" form of mod merging. So, I might take a couple weekends and bang that out first.

This sounds like a really good idea. With that in place, there'll barely be a distinction between Modest Modules and regular minor mods, and it'll be a lot easier for third parties to make their own modules (for instance, to make bears and other creatures domesticable again).

ptb_ptb

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Re: Modest Mod v0.40.24-1
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2015, 12:15:14 pm »

Hmm, I didn't spot anything about coins / currency in the features list. I just found that on retiring / unretiring a fortress all the beds have little piles of coins dropped on them. :) Did Toady do something to the economy recently, or is it just one of those weird things?
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Re: Modest Mod v0.40.24-1
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2015, 02:25:26 pm »

Hmm, I didn't spot anything about coins / currency in the features list. I just found that on retiring / unretiring a fortress all the beds have little piles of coins dropped on them. :) Did Toady do something to the economy recently, or is it just one of those weird things?

It's not Modest Mod. Maybe each dwarf is given a small amount of currency when you retire the fort, so that they can do adventure mode things?
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Re: Modest Mod v0.40.24-1
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2015, 12:40:56 am »

Thanks Button! It's great to see this updated!

I've put together a first attempt at an Ironhand version of Modest Mod v0.40.24-1. I'm still just getting started testing it, but it looks okay so far.

Here's the DFDD link: Modest Mod v.0.40.24-1 for Ironhand Graphics

I hope this helps. The merges were pretty straightforward, so I'm hopeful it'll be error-free.
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PeridexisErrant

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Re: Modest Mod v0.40.24-1
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2015, 01:11:46 am »

I've also been thinking about that automatic mod merger program PeredexisErrant gave up on a while ago. ("Gave up" is too strong a word, really - he was satisfied with a less full-featured version than I would have been, is all.)

What would you want that isn't implemented?  As of PyLNP 0.9.2a (which I finished work on a few hours ago  ;)), I've got almost everything working.  Line-by-line merges of an uncapped number of mods, integration with graphics packs including changing graphics on modded saves, and so on.  To get more complex options you'd have to go to a system which supports scripts, such as Rubble.

On a different note, do you have that list of modified files?  I'm particularly interested in knowing if any lines changed by Phoebus are further changed by Modest Mod (which affects merge compatibility), and more importantly how likely it is that updates will be save-compatible with older versions of Modest Mod.
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Re: Modest Mod v0.40.24-1
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2015, 01:53:37 am »

I've also been thinking about that automatic mod merger program PeredexisErrant gave up on a while ago. ("Gave up" is too strong a word, really - he was satisfied with a less full-featured version than I would have been, is all.)

What would you want that isn't implemented?  As of PyLNP 0.9.2a (which I finished work on a few hours ago  ;)), I've got almost everything working.  Line-by-line merges of an uncapped number of mods, integration with graphics packs including changing graphics on modded saves, and so on.

Last I kept up with your mod merger you were still rejecting anything with extra/non-vanilla files?

I'll check out the newer version sometime & see what I can see.

Quote
On a different note, do you have that list of modified files?  I'm particularly interested in knowing if any lines changed by Phoebus are further changed by Modest Mod (which affects merge compatibility), and more importantly how likely it is that updates will be save-compatible with older versions of Modest Mod.

2-3 lines changed by Phoebus are further changed by Modest Mod. They're in the Plump Helmet definition, and change the tile for the base plump helmet fungus "shrub". (Since the helmets need to be growths in order to be pickable in adventure mode, the shrub sticks around after harvesting in fortress mode, so I needed a different graphic to show "Hey you already picked this.")

Plant Fixes, if made into a Module, would do this a lot.

I'm not aware of any older versions of Modest Mod for 0.40.x to be compatible with.

All of the files included in the zip are modified. I'd download it and list them out for you, but I'm on my work computer right now and corporate recently slapped me on the wrist for downloading files from the new DFFD.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 01:55:55 am by Button »
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Re: Modest Mod v0.40.24-1
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2015, 02:25:34 am »

It now handles any folder in raw (or data/speech) ending ".txt", ".lua", ".rb", or ".init".  So non-vanilla files are handled fine, though of course if you add too many from too many different mods it might crash DF  :P

Overlapping changes will be OK - users will get a warning if merging manually, but graphics switching on saves will be fine.  Basically the mods/graphics integration can currently handle changes in the raws, but not adding or changing the images (this is a priority for later work).

No need to list files, I can check myself later.  For compatibility, I was thinking more of future versions:  if it's save compatible, it can use the same folder name and I can ditch the old one.  If not, I have to either keep including the older version or graphics will no longer be up-datable on that save.
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Re: Modest Mod v0.40.24-1
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2015, 09:36:36 am »

Future version save compatibility is something I can't guarantee in advance, I'm afraid. I'll do my best though.
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Re: Modest Mod v0.40.24-1
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2015, 11:37:45 am »

Since it looks like additional graphics sets are going to be pretty much a nonissue with PeridexisErrant's existing mod merge utility, I've put up a poll for which Modest Module y'all would like to see first.

I'll be putting up the new graphics pack'd versions over the next few evenings, starting with Starfox.
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