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Which graphics set should the Modest Mod be uploaded in next?

Afro
- 1 (0.8%)
Duerer
- 8 (6.3%)
GemSet
- 12 (9.4%)
Ironhand
- 28 (22%)
Jolly Bastion
- 5 (3.9%)
Mayday
- 11 (8.7%)
Obsidian
- 13 (10.2%)
Spacefox
- 31 (24.4%)
Wanderlust
- 9 (7.1%)
Other (please specify)
- 9 (7.1%)

Total Members Voted: 127


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Author Topic: Modest Mod v0.42.06-1  (Read 73310 times)

Dwarf_Fever

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Re: Modest Mod v0.42.06-1
« Reply #420 on: July 01, 2017, 08:47:47 pm »

It sounds like what I owe people first is a working Accelerated module, since apparently I've left it derelict for a friggin year.

Dear god please yes ;_;
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Ghills

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Re: Modest Mod v0.42.06-1
« Reply #421 on: July 13, 2017, 12:15:37 pm »


So what I'm hearing between here and the DF Revised thread is that people still want a French Vanilla Modest Mod, and that DF Revised is intended to be more Cookie Dough? That's cool.

It sounds like what I owe people first is a working Accelerated module, since apparently I've left it derelict for a friggin year.


HALLELUJAH! HALLELUJAH!
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Thundercraft

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Re: Modest Mod v0.42.06-1
« Reply #422 on: October 03, 2017, 07:38:08 am »

I kept telling myself that I'd get back to the Modest Mod when I got back to Dwarf Fortress, and I'd get back to Dwarf Fortress when Therapist was ready for 64-bit.

Well, Dwarf Therapist 64-bit is now available...

Regarding MAXAGE for giant creatures, I was very careful with these and considered it one of the most important changes in the entire mod, so I'm sad to hear that it was removed. The reason I consider it so important is that incubation/pregnancy length is fixed across all species...

I agree: Your MAXAGE changes are important. I liked the way you had them and that was one of the things I did not like about Taffer's many changes.

Removing [GRAZER] from animal people was to support animal people in Fortress mode, because the AI doesn't know how to handle it. If you tend towards playing a Deep Dwarf fortress, you'll get animal people starving because they can't eat real food, and don't know they need to go stand on grass to eat.

I suspected that might be the case, but I had not tested this. So, I did not try to argue with Taffer about it. (Though, I did suggest that Panda-men's bamboo requirement would lead to starvation.)

I see that Taffer has taken their version to Dwarf Fortress Revised. Is there interest in the community for a separate Modest Mod to continue, or is DF Revised filling that niche?

If everyone's happy with DF Revised then I'll gladly branch off into something a little more... Vanilla Swiss Almond, along the lines of my old "Button's Raws" mod.

While I did like some of the changes Taffer made, I generally prefer the classic Modest Mod package. I feel that there is still a niche for Modest Mod to fill, even with the continuation of DF Revised. If you were to ask me, I think you should stick to the Modest Mod tagline:

The OP describes this mod as, "an indispensable mod" and states:
The Modest Mod is a collection of vital bugfixes and tweaks that everyone should be able to use comfortably and without reservation. This mod doesn't add anything new. It doesn't do anything controversial. It's just like vanilla DF, but a little better.

The whole premise is to create a mod of essential bug fixes and tweaks that, almost without exception, everyone can agree to. However, some slightly controversial stuff can be included as optional modules and that is obviously part of the appeal.

The more Modest Mod differs from vanilla the more likely it is to conflict with mods. Since Modest Mod is touted as being a good base upon which to build mods, this is why it's important to keep Modest Mod close to vanilla, only fixing bugs and other problems (except as separate modules).

I'll be honest, keeping up with a bunch of modules gets really tiring really fast, especially for the modules you don't even use personally.

In my post a few pages back, I explained why I thought that the Modest Bodies, Pedestal, and Tooltips modules are so incredibly modest that I don't understand why they are optional modules.

Taffer pointed out that Toady plans to incorporate Pedestal (or something like it) in the next release. So, there's probably no point in having that module for the next version.

Likely, you could incorporate Tooltips and Modest Bodies into your base code without anyone complaining about it as they do not seem controversial. However, if Modest Bodies might conflict with certain mods, that'd be a good reason to keep it separate.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 07:39:54 am by Thundercraft »
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Taffer

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Re: Modest Mod v0.42.06-1
« Reply #423 on: October 16, 2017, 02:17:48 pm »

Oh, hello Thundercraft! Thank you for the inspiration to comment everything in my new mod.

I agree: Your MAXAGE changes are important. I liked the way you had them and that was one of the things I did not like about Taffer's many changes.

Merged back in to Revised already, and would do so for the modest mod if I was interested in maintaining it.

I suspected that might be the case, but I had not tested this. So, I did not try to argue with Taffer about it. (Though, I did suggest that Panda-men's bamboo requirement would lead to starvation.)

Removing [GRAZER] and similar tags is already on my list for my next version, and I prefer it thematically even if this bug is fixed. Panda-men already have the bamboo requirement waved, but I forget if I changed that in my last modest mod version or not.

Not sure what you mean by "argue": I seem to have come across as being bullish, but that isn't the case: I'm happy to hear criticism. Apologies for coming across that way.

The more Modest Mod differs from vanilla the more likely it is to conflict with mods. Since Modest Mod is touted as being a good base upon which to build mods, this is why it's important to keep Modest Mod close to vanilla, only fixing bugs and other problems (except as separate modules).

In my opinion, this is good in theory but problematic in practice: in terms of comments and lines of RAW code changed, I believe that Revised is already easier to merge in than Modest, although that will change in my next version. I was also talked out removing some very noisy bug fixes. In addition, supporting Modest Mod for other mod authors requires them to either ignore Accelerated (a major reason people like Modest), or try to merge in those massive changes.

If Modest Mod continues, I suggest dropping the noisiest bug fixes, eliminating many of the little, forgettable ones (like I did), commenting everything, and definitely finish Accelerated support.

In my post a few pages back, I explained why I thought that the Modest Bodies, Pedestal, and Tooltips modules are so incredibly modest that I don't understand why they are optional modules

Agreed on the tooltips: I made improvements to these, so I recommend checking the Revised repo. If memory serves, Modest Bodies makes unnecessary changes: the Revised version is preferable, in my opinion. There's no need for any changes other than textual improvements (although adding some new bones is on my todo list, as part of armor improvements). In addition, "upper body" really should stay as "upper body": otherwise in combat, people can strike the chest from behind, which is silly. Until we can differentiate "back" from "chest", it should stay as "upper body".

Not sure if my current version makes the above changes, but the master version from my repo should.

Please let me know, here or in the Revised thread, if there are any other recommendations! Modest and Revised are still similar enough that suggestions can often apply to either.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 04:19:54 pm by Taffer »
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gchristopher

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Re: Modest Mod v0.42.06-1
« Reply #424 on: October 23, 2017, 01:13:37 am »

So what I'm hearing between here and the DF Revised thread is that people still want a French Vanilla Modest Mod, and that DF Revised is intended to be more Cookie Dough? That's cool.
Yaaaay!

I'm not sure I'm going to devote a lot of time to a new 43.05 game with a new release imminent, but Modest Mod (or an equally conservative replacement) will be essential for picking the game back up.

In the case of Revised, some of the changes from Coherent Weapons and Microreduce are ones that wouldn't fit well in Modest Mod and that, at least, is a great reason to have MM stay available.
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HellishINC

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Re: Modest Mod v0.42.06-1
« Reply #425 on: October 25, 2017, 09:27:56 pm »

Hey Button, Would it not be possible to use Meph's/Masterwork's standardized components as a basis? I'm not entirely sure how he/they handle it though so it's possible that it would be too much work to "merge" that.
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MachinaMandala

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Re: Modest Mod v0.42.06-1
« Reply #426 on: December 06, 2017, 09:49:22 am »

Are there any plans to update this for 0.44? Also, I think the problem with your accelerated mod was due to the fact the animal creature file wasn't headed properly.
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Romeofalling

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Re: Modest Mod v0.42.06-1
« Reply #427 on: January 19, 2018, 08:29:47 pm »

I downloaded and installed this pack into this LNP/Mac : http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158322.0

I'm a bit confused by the Pedestal mod, because it seems like there's been an update to include Pedestals in the base game, according to the wiki, but I'm not finding them (I only installed Tooltips). Is there a compatibility issue I missed? Am I using an old version of ModestMod?

If I've somehow mucked up, can I safely port my save folder to a fresh install of the "base" LNP version of DF and still use this save game?
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ldog

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Re: Modest Mod v0.42.06-1
« Reply #428 on: January 30, 2018, 08:45:30 pm »

I downloaded and installed this pack into this LNP/Mac : http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158322.0

I'm a bit confused by the Pedestal mod, because it seems like there's been an update to include Pedestals in the base game, according to the wiki, but I'm not finding them (I only installed Tooltips). Is there a compatibility issue I missed? Am I using an old version of ModestMod?

If I've somehow mucked up, can I safely port my save folder to a fresh install of the "base" LNP version of DF and still use this save game?

Yeah, this hasn't been updated since 42. Amazing how some of the conversations some of us have had around here have spanned years.
In any other game it would be safe to call this abandoned, but DF is forever!
Taffer hasn't updated his take on this yet either, at 43, although I believe he is still working on it http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=161832.0

EDIT, oh yeah, the reason I popped in here. If anyone picks this up again.
I don't know if it is possible (dunno how tightly integrated worldgen is) but very thematic to modest mod would be to get rid of the fucking procedurely(why can't I spell this?) generated musical instruments and replace them with static ones. It's bad enough trying to figure out where all the parts are to whatever thing, but when the names some random junk instead of something like pipe organ, piano, bass guitar, etc it just gives me fits trying to figure out what instruments are available to me and which are 1 piece or made of parts.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 08:52:34 pm by ldog »
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Taffer

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Re: Modest Mod v0.42.06-1
« Reply #429 on: January 30, 2018, 08:50:21 pm »

Taffer hasn't updated his take on this yet either, at 43, although I believe he is still working on it http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=161832.0

Still working on it. Amazingly, I only have three creature files left to finish the descriptions for, then I'll work on my todo list.

That being said, my focus has shifted: the Modest Mod was (to me) about collecting lots of little fixes (along with big ones), and about the Accelerated mod (what many users seem to like Modest Mod for). I've axed most of the little fixes for Revised, as I don't want to diverge from DF's raws without a compelling reason and lots of the little fixes just fixed things "because that's how it is in real life", which IMO isn't a sufficient reason by itself. I'm happy to just assume those are creative differences on Toady's part. I still have little fixes here and there, but mostly for consistency (removing wings from cave dragons because regular dragons don't have them) or flavour (typos). The "big fixes" remain, because nobody likes bugs.

I'm shifting focus towards better (and simpler, in minor ways) gameplay, some FPS tweaks, and especially more flavour (better descriptions, better elf weapons, Wanderer's tiered leather, cutebolds). If users enjoy the little fixes (such as raging hippos) they'll need to either post in my thread defending said little fix or hope somebody updates the Modest Mod.

All of which is to say that Revised isn't really intended to be a successor to the Modest Mod, as I don't want to disappoint anybody that dislikes my flavour and gameplay changes, and I don't want to keep collecting tiny fixes that I might need to debug later, clutter up my feature list, and that I have to keep checking over every time I compare my files against DF's again (every update).

EDIT: I recant much of this post. I'm coming to appreciate the little fixes that Modest makes, and I've been adding them all back into DF Revised. I'm sorry that I argued otherwise!
« Last Edit: April 02, 2018, 11:27:50 pm by Taffer »
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ldog

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Re: Modest Mod v0.42.06-1
« Reply #430 on: January 30, 2018, 09:00:22 pm »

Taffer hasn't updated his take on this yet either, at 43, although I believe he is still working on it http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=161832.0

Still working on it. Amazingly, I only have three creature files left to finish the descriptions for, then I'll work on my todo list.

That being said, my focus has shifted: the Modest Mod was (to me) about collecting lots of little fixes (along with big ones), and about the Accelerated mod (what many users seem to like Modest Mod for). I've axed most of the little fixes for Revised, as I don't want to diverge from DF's edits without a compelling reason and lots of the little fixes just fixed things "because that's how it is in real life", and I'm happy to just assume those are creative differences on Toady's part until told or convinced otherwise. I still have little fixes here and there, but mostly for consistency (removing wings from cave dragons because regular dragons don't have them) or flavour (typos).

 and I'm shifting focus towards better (and simpler) gameplay, some FPS tweaks, and more flavour (better descriptions, better elf weapons, Wanderer's tiered leather). If users enjoy the little fixes (such as raging hippos) they'll need to either post in my thread defending said little fix or hope somebody updates the Modest Mod.

Yeah, hi stranger. Was just catching up on your thread too. I took DF out for it's annual dustoff (actually I was really just waiting for the 44 release of LNP).
So was editing my post when you popped in. Dunno if the musical instruments are up your alley or if it's even doable (or maybe someone has done already).
Just doing a first clean playthrough of it to see what's been fixed or not, although I see already I still miss my custom booze reactions. If nothing else, I'll probably fix those up at some point. The overabundance of wood & stone are now tolerable at least since they can be specified from work orders.
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For example, if you wanted to check if a unit was eligible to be a politician or a car salesman, you'd first want to verify that there is no soul present...

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Taffer

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Re: Modest Mod v0.42.06-1
« Reply #431 on: January 30, 2018, 09:06:59 pm »

Yeah, hi stranger. Was just catching up on your thread too. I took DF out for it's annual dustoff (actually I was really just waiting for the 44 release of LNP).
So was editing my post when you popped in. Dunno if the musical instruments are up your alley or if it's even doable (or maybe someone has done already).
Just doing a first clean playthrough of it to see what's been fixed or not, although I see already I still miss my custom booze reactions. If nothing else, I'll probably fix those up at some point. The overabundance of wood & stone are now tolerable at least since they can be specified from work orders.

And of course, I was editing mine when you replied. C'est la vie. The musical instrument change sounds like something I'd be interested in, definitely (provided its possible and works well) Simpler to read and understand. Although I'd prefer something more "medieval", like lutes, fiddles, flutes, harps, drums. Sounds like a good idea.
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ldog

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Re: Modest Mod v0.42.06-1
« Reply #432 on: January 30, 2018, 09:38:49 pm »

Yeah, hi stranger. Was just catching up on your thread too. I took DF out for it's annual dustoff (actually I was really just waiting for the 44 release of LNP).
So was editing my post when you popped in. Dunno if the musical instruments are up your alley or if it's even doable (or maybe someone has done already).
Just doing a first clean playthrough of it to see what's been fixed or not, although I see already I still miss my custom booze reactions. If nothing else, I'll probably fix those up at some point. The overabundance of wood & stone are now tolerable at least since they can be specified from work orders.

And of course, I was editing mine when you replied. C'est la vie. The musical instrument change sounds like something I'd be interested in, definitely (provided its possible and works well) Simpler to read and understand. Although I'd prefer something more "medieval", like lutes, fiddles, flutes, harps, drums. Sounds like a good idea.

Ok good, thought I was getting senile, cause I reread it and was like "I don't remember this".
I can't say I blame you, some of it is a lot of work for very little gain.
Yeah, I was just pulling out names off the top of my head, cause those were some of the closest things that popped to mind from their descriptions, but you get what I mean.
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Quote from: Dirst
For example, if you wanted to check if a unit was eligible to be a politician or a car salesman, you'd first want to verify that there is no soul present...

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The more appropriate question becomes, are they awesome and dwarven enough.

Romeofalling

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Re: Modest Mod v0.42.06-1
« Reply #433 on: January 31, 2018, 03:58:56 pm »

Yeah, hi stranger. Was just catching up on your thread too. I took DF out for it's annual dustoff (actually I was really just waiting for the 44 release of LNP).
So was editing my post when you popped in. Dunno if the musical instruments are up your alley or if it's even doable (or maybe someone has done already).
Just doing a first clean playthrough of it to see what's been fixed or not, although I see already I still miss my custom booze reactions. If nothing else, I'll probably fix those up at some point. The overabundance of wood & stone are now tolerable at least since they can be specified from work orders.

If you're going to do this, then I request that there be musical instruments/parts for each of the materials (stone, metal, wood, leather, glass, clay, cloth/thread). Ideal would be the ability to make an instrument that requires several materials all at once (eg, a drum that takes 1 wood and 1 leather to make, chimes that take sand/glass and stone, etc).
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Taffer

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Re: Modest Mod v0.42.06-1
« Reply #434 on: March 17, 2018, 02:49:55 pm »

Not sure if you'll ever pick up the Modest Mod again, Button, but I finished all of my description work. You're welcome to use it. I recommend checking back with Revised every now and then if you pick it up, because I'm still dissatisfied and will probably be editing them more. Fortunately, I was editing them a lot faster than I was writing them, and the basics are there already.

A few liberties were taken for flavor in the creature_standard file: notably, kobolds are described as being cuter and elves have "eldritch eyes".
« Last Edit: March 17, 2018, 03:02:23 pm by Taffer »
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TAFFER'S TILESETS: better colours, improved yet faithful graphics.
REVISED: balance, fixes, and convenient features. Every creature has a better description!
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