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Poll

Which graphics set should the Modest Mod be uploaded in next?

Afro
- 0 (0%)
Duerer
- 8 (7.4%)
GemSet
- 8 (7.4%)
Ironhand
- 27 (25%)
Jolly Bastion
- 5 (4.6%)
Mayday
- 8 (7.4%)
Obsidian
- 12 (11.1%)
Spacefox
- 27 (25%)
Wanderlust
- 7 (6.5%)
Other (please specify)
- 6 (5.6%)

Total Members Voted: 108


Pages: 1 ... 27 28 [29]

Author Topic: Modest Mod v0.42.06-1  (Read 60894 times)

Dwarf_Fever

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Re: Modest Mod v0.42.06-1
« Reply #420 on: July 01, 2017, 08:47:47 pm »

It sounds like what I owe people first is a working Accelerated module, since apparently I've left it derelict for a friggin year.

Dear god please yes ;_;
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Ghills

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Re: Modest Mod v0.42.06-1
« Reply #421 on: July 13, 2017, 12:15:37 pm »


So what I'm hearing between here and the DF Revised thread is that people still want a French Vanilla Modest Mod, and that DF Revised is intended to be more Cookie Dough? That's cool.

It sounds like what I owe people first is a working Accelerated module, since apparently I've left it derelict for a friggin year.


HALLELUJAH! HALLELUJAH!
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Thundercraft

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Re: Modest Mod v0.42.06-1
« Reply #422 on: October 03, 2017, 07:38:08 am »

I kept telling myself that I'd get back to the Modest Mod when I got back to Dwarf Fortress, and I'd get back to Dwarf Fortress when Therapist was ready for 64-bit.

Well, Dwarf Therapist 64-bit is now available...

Regarding MAXAGE for giant creatures, I was very careful with these and considered it one of the most important changes in the entire mod, so I'm sad to hear that it was removed. The reason I consider it so important is that incubation/pregnancy length is fixed across all species...

I agree: Your MAXAGE changes are important. I liked the way you had them and that was one of the things I did not like about Taffer's many changes.

Removing [GRAZER] from animal people was to support animal people in Fortress mode, because the AI doesn't know how to handle it. If you tend towards playing a Deep Dwarf fortress, you'll get animal people starving because they can't eat real food, and don't know they need to go stand on grass to eat.

I suspected that might be the case, but I had not tested this. So, I did not try to argue with Taffer about it. (Though, I did suggest that Panda-men's bamboo requirement would lead to starvation.)

I see that Taffer has taken their version to Dwarf Fortress Revised. Is there interest in the community for a separate Modest Mod to continue, or is DF Revised filling that niche?

If everyone's happy with DF Revised then I'll gladly branch off into something a little more... Vanilla Swiss Almond, along the lines of my old "Button's Raws" mod.

While I did like some of the changes Taffer made, I generally prefer the classic Modest Mod package. I feel that there is still a niche for Modest Mod to fill, even with the continuation of DF Revised. If you were to ask me, I think you should stick to the Modest Mod tagline:

The OP describes this mod as, "an indispensable mod" and states:
The Modest Mod is a collection of vital bugfixes and tweaks that everyone should be able to use comfortably and without reservation. This mod doesn't add anything new. It doesn't do anything controversial. It's just like vanilla DF, but a little better.

The whole premise is to create a mod of essential bug fixes and tweaks that, almost without exception, everyone can agree to. However, some slightly controversial stuff can be included as optional modules and that is obviously part of the appeal.

The more Modest Mod differs from vanilla the more likely it is to conflict with mods. Since Modest Mod is touted as being a good base upon which to build mods, this is why it's important to keep Modest Mod close to vanilla, only fixing bugs and other problems (except as separate modules).

I'll be honest, keeping up with a bunch of modules gets really tiring really fast, especially for the modules you don't even use personally.

In my post a few pages back, I explained why I thought that the Modest Bodies, Pedestal, and Tooltips modules are so incredibly modest that I don't understand why they are optional modules.

Taffer pointed out that Toady plans to incorporate Pedestal (or something like it) in the next release. So, there's probably no point in having that module for the next version.

Likely, you could incorporate Tooltips and Modest Bodies into your base code without anyone complaining about it as they do not seem controversial. However, if Modest Bodies might conflict with certain mods, that'd be a good reason to keep it separate.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 07:39:54 am by Thundercraft »
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Taffer

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Re: Modest Mod v0.42.06-1
« Reply #423 on: October 16, 2017, 02:17:48 pm »

Oh, hello Thundercraft! Thank you for the inspiration to comment everything in my new mod.

I agree: Your MAXAGE changes are important. I liked the way you had them and that was one of the things I did not like about Taffer's many changes.

Merged back in to Revised already, and would do so for the modest mod if I was interested in maintaining it.

I suspected that might be the case, but I had not tested this. So, I did not try to argue with Taffer about it. (Though, I did suggest that Panda-men's bamboo requirement would lead to starvation.)

Removing [GRAZER] and similar tags is already on my list for my next version, and I prefer it thematically even if this bug is fixed. Panda-men already have the bamboo requirement waved, but I forget if I changed that in my last modest mod version or not.

Not sure what you mean by "argue": I seem to have come across as being bullish, but that isn't the case: I'm happy to hear criticism. Apologies for coming across that way.

The more Modest Mod differs from vanilla the more likely it is to conflict with mods. Since Modest Mod is touted as being a good base upon which to build mods, this is why it's important to keep Modest Mod close to vanilla, only fixing bugs and other problems (except as separate modules).

In my opinion, this is good in theory but problematic in practice: in terms of comments and lines of RAW code changed, I believe that Revised is already easier to merge in than Modest, although that will change in my next version. I was also talked out removing some very noisy bug fixes. In addition, supporting Modest Mod for other mod authors requires them to either ignore Accelerated (a major reason people like Modest), or try to merge in those massive changes.

If Modest Mod continues, I suggest dropping the noisiest bug fixes, eliminating many of the little, forgettable ones (like I did), commenting everything, and definitely finish Accelerated support.

In my post a few pages back, I explained why I thought that the Modest Bodies, Pedestal, and Tooltips modules are so incredibly modest that I don't understand why they are optional modules

Agreed on the tooltips: I made improvements to these, so I recommend checking the Revised repo. If memory serves, Modest Bodies makes unnecessary changes: the Revised version is preferable, in my opinion. There's no need for any changes other than textual improvements (although adding some new bones is on my todo list, as part of armor improvements). In addition, "upper body" really should stay as "upper body": otherwise in combat, people can strike the chest from behind, which is silly. Until we can differentiate "back" from "chest", it should stay as "upper body".

Not sure if my current version makes the above changes, but the master version from my repo should.

Please let me know, here or in the Revised thread, if there are any other recommendations! Modest and Revised are still similar enough that suggestions can often apply to either.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 04:19:54 pm by Taffer »
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Taffer's Tilesets: better colors, improved yet faithful graphics.
Revised: balance, fixes, and convenient features.
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