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[ldog]

I've been playing with adding creatures lately, and the description of the PET tag is misleading. It's entirely possible for non-exotic pets to be absent from the embark screen if the civ never encounters them. Only the COMMON_DOMESTIC tag guarantees putting a creature on the embark list, and this also gives it to the human civs.

So is the PET tag necessary or not? I ask because I am sick of migrants showing up with livestock as pets, but I do want to be able to buy them on embark and from caravans. Other than cats and dogs (and really I'd rather be able to train all my dogs for war) I don't want any animals in the fort that aren't butcherable livestock.

An animal needs [PET] or [PET_EXOTIC] to be domesticated at all.  So, yes you have the weirdness of people having livestock as family pets.  There might be a way to sever the pet relationship when an animal arrives on the map, but that's DFHackery above my skill level.

Crap! Glad I saw this thread before I went and took all the [PET] tags out.
Thanks!

[Spiderking50]

In relation to semi/mega beasts taking over civs, in 34 I got this to happen all the time in my mods. The power tag, ability to learn and speak, and the right sphere allocation between the beast and civ was all it took then. I vaguely remembering some !!science!! done which linked the number of spheres in common to the likelihood of a beast posing as a god and taking over the civ.

For example:
A hydra with the spheres of muck, caverns, deformity and darkness will often take over a civ that has muck, caverns, deformity, and darkness.

The same hydra will occasionally take over a civ which only has muck and deformity.

That hydra will never take over a civ that has none of the spheres.


If this is still true for the newest version, then some simple sphere twinking can increase the takeover rate and also be used to make certain creatures be more likely to take over civs. I had a world where a demon lead a goblin civ against a dragon's human civ while dwarves worshiped an amethyst colossus megabeast that I made. With perfect civ to beast sphere match ups takeovers were super common.

[Usul]

Don't forget the [ALLOWED_CREATURE:] and [ALLOWED_CLASS:] tags, they are helpful if you have a lot of megabeast sharing the same spheres.

[Nopenope]

Couple of questions :

How does the [SKULKING] token influence hostility? Can you still be allies with a [SKULKING] civ if it belongs to the same faction as yours?

If a creature has [UTTERANCES] but [CAN_SPEAK], which one prevails? Will it be able to form treaties or have allies?

Are cave civs always hostile? I've seen them become friendly at occasions, notably when fighting megabeasts. Does this kind of behavior ever occur anymore as of .40.24 and under what conditions does it occur?

Are Megabeasts/Demons always independent from one another? Will a demon from a goblin civ be hostile toward a demon from hell?

Is it ever possible to mod the game such that a civ may trade with you and invade/steal from you at the same time?

[Usul]

1-Concerning the SKULKING tag, from the wiki

This makes the severity of attacks depend on the extent of item/baby thievery rather than the passage of time.

2-If you look at the OP:

Some caveats: Creatures without the ability to communicate will always be hostile, even if they technically would be considered the same faction.  They will also wage endless wars, since they lack the ability to form treaties.  This includes creatures without CAN_SPEAK (or INTELLIGENT, which is functionally CAN_LEARN and CAN_SPEAK combined).  Creatures with UTTERANCES cannot communicate with other civs, however if they have both UTTERANCES and CAN_SPEAK they will be able to communicate.

5-There are factions in the game. From the OP:

Spoiler: The Four Factions (click to show/hide)

There are four entity 'factions' that can be created in Dwarf Fortress, although Vanilla only uses three of them.  These factions are determined by the presence or absence of the [BABYSNATCHER] or [ITEM_THIEF] tags, so the four factions can be called the Civilized (with neither tag), the Babysnatchers, the Item Thieves, and the Babysnatching Item Thieves.  Members of the same faction will trade with you in fort mode, and members of all other factions may invade you.  This is separate from civs at war, which is determined by having opposing ethics.

Maybe if both civs have [ITEM_THIEF] ? It's worth trying.

[Sver]

How does the [SKULKING] token influence hostility? Can you still be allies with a [SKULKING] civ if it belongs to the same faction as yours?

As I know, this tag disables all "govermental stuff". Thus skulking civs neither do any diplomacy (or traiding) nor pick up fights (if there's a war during worldgen, they won't even resist the attackers; however, skulking civs are very rare to participate in wars).

Don't know if that was mentioned already, but the [BABYSNATCHER] tag seems to significantly boost civ's "level of aggression", e.g. they wage wars much more often than those lacking it.

I'm currently trying to make a research on what else determines the said "level". Almost identical civs can have quite different behaviour in worldgen. DF politics is a weird thing indeed.

Also, do anyone knows what determines the civ to have site ownership conflicts?

[vjmdhzgr]

Is it ever possible to mod the game such that a civ may trade with you and invade/steal from you at the same time?

No, it's the same for baby snatchers. Source:Playing lots of masterwork dwarf fortress or personal mods as item_thief or babysnatcher civs. It's because they only steal or snatch from people they're enemies with, and if you're allied with them, you're not enemies. Whether they will send thieves if you end up in an actual war over ethics or something is something i do not know, but would guess yes.

[Sver]

Is it ever possible to mod the game such that a civ may trade with you and invade/steal from you at the same time?

Not exactly what you asked for, but:
If a traiding civ is populated by creatures with CURIOUSBEAST_x tag, said creatures WILL steal everything on sight. Even their own goods. However, as I could say, it only works in fortress mod. Also, it's especially weird, if such civ is playable: early in the beginning all your citizens will grab stuff from the wagon and go to hang around in the meeting area forever.

[Severedicks]

Are cave civs always hostile? I've seen them become friendly at occasions, notably when fighting megabeasts. Does this kind of behavior ever occur anymore as of .40.24 and under what conditions does it occur?

Seconding this. The wiki is not very informative about this, even the wiki article about factions won't say much.

[sirvente]

Worked this one out a few nights ago, despite what magmawiki says [DEFAULT_SITE:FORTRESS] is functional, but weird. You can't have any positions in the entity with [CHAT_WORTHY] or the game crashes, this includes the variable positions so don't use those. Leaving that aside you've got a civ that won't build any more sites and for some reason seems to not be targetable for wars, so it could be useful for more esoteric races.

[Nopenope]

Seconding this. The wiki is not very informative about this, even the wiki article about factions won't say much.

That article is now severely outdated with the new versions coming up and relationships becoming increasingly complex depending on values, ethics and entity. I guess more research is needed.

[Shadowclaimer]

This is incredibly useful, thank you!

[IndigoFenix]

Bumping this up, since there's a lot of civ-related questions.  The front page needs to be updated somewhat (it still has outdated info on pets and livestock), but most of it still holds true, at least as far as settlement and biomes are concerned.  What are the new changes that need to be added?  Also, has anyone figured out how to make dark fortresses not cause worldgen crashes?

[Beakromancer]

Bumping this up, since there's a lot of civ-related questions.  The front page needs to be updated somewhat (it still has outdated info on pets and livestock), but most of it still holds true, at least as far as settlement and biomes are concerned.  What are the new changes that need to be added?  Also, has anyone figured out how to make dark fortresses not cause worldgen crashes?

The crashes are probably being caused by certain positions having the [CHAT_WORTHY] tag.

Edit: nvm this fact was already stated in the OP

[Iä! RIAKTOR!]

New version needs new science.