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Author Topic: The Civilization Cookbook  (Read 22947 times)

Toxicshadow

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Re: The Civilization Cookbook
« Reply #60 on: January 27, 2021, 11:25:03 pm »

Nice, definitely bookmarking this. You brought up something relevant to me, saying
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Speaking of oceans, it's worth mentioning that all biome types, including oceans, are functionally equal when determining spread and settlement, and will be regarded as such during worldgen.  Logic will assert itself if you try to visit certain sites, though.  (i.e. if you visit a subaquatic human city, everyone will drown as soon as you arrive.)
Let's say you have a civilization whos creatures are amphibious or entirely aquatic. Would they build cities and behave like other entities, just in water? Is it plausible to have an aquatic entity?
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'ere the Chias get hungry...

Splint

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Re: The Civilization Cookbook
« Reply #61 on: January 28, 2021, 05:47:13 pm »

Nice, definitely bookmarking this. You brought up something relevant to me, saying
Quote
Speaking of oceans, it's worth mentioning that all biome types, including oceans, are functionally equal when determining spread and settlement, and will be regarded as such during worldgen.  Logic will assert itself if you try to visit certain sites, though.  (i.e. if you visit a subaquatic human city, everyone will drown as soon as you arrive.)
Let's say you have a civilization whos creatures are amphibious or entirely aquatic. Would they build cities and behave like other entities, just in water? Is it plausible to have an aquatic entity?

Having seen amphibious fish people successfully build cities in marine biomes and come to trade, I'd assume it is, but there might be some jankiness in adventure mode, what with there being water potentially shoving items everywhere. They do need some dedicated cargo animals to trade though since more often than not they aren't settled near enough to a place with available beasts of burden.

Liquidpip

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Re: The Civilization Cookbook
« Reply #62 on: January 29, 2021, 10:25:39 am »

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COMMON_DOMESTIC_PACK, PULL, PET, etc. Allow creatures with the PET and COMMON_DOMESTIC tags to be added. Those creatures must not be intelligent.
I've discovered that, no, creatures with [COMMON_DOMESTIC] and one of [PET], [MOUNT], [PACK_ANIMAL], or [WAGON_PULLER] will be tamed and be available on the appropriate civ's embark and to be requested from their merchants regardless of the [INTELLIGENT] tag. It doesn't need the [SLOW_LEARNER] either and will be shown as strays. They act buggy like gremlins though. But you'll still be able to assign them noble positions like the bookkeeper.

Also, to make an animal only available for a certain entity, the [ANIMAL_ALWAYS_PRESENT] and [ANIMAL_ALWAYS_PET] under the [ANIMAL] will make animals without any [BIOME:<tag>] to be available exclusively for that entity. Example:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

if you have space horses without any biome to live in, the entity with those tags will be the only source of space horses in the world, regardless of the space horses having [PET], [PET_EXOTIC], or neither.

Oh and another thing:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

adding this under the default [ENTITY:MOUNTAIN] will make unmodded elves available as "pets" exclusively for dwarves, dwarven embark, and to be requested from dwarven merchants, regardless of their intelligence. And, since they lack the [PETVALUE] tag, they'll cost (0/2)+1 = 1 on embark. They'll act just like any other dwarf, have ethics and values like any other dwarf, you can assign them labors just like dwarves (unlike trolls), you'll be able to see their preferences etc., and you can't really make them available as pets (or butcher them). They will, however, be shown as (tame). And they won't be as fond of alcohol as your dwarves, because that goes to the creature definition, along with personality traits and attributes. Adding the [ANIMAL_ALWAYS_WAGON_PULLER] does what you think it does.

If you do this to creatures that have the [PET], [MOUNT] etc., however, they will be buggy just like unmodded gremlins and trolls in [USE_EVIL_ANIMALS] entities. So if you're planning on making civilizations of multiple creatures in which the others were slaves, these are your tools.

Image examples:
- using the [ANIMAL] thing. I changed the translation to gen divine for funsies
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
- If the elves have [PET] and [COMMON_DOMESTIC], regardless of intelligence. They can't be assigned labors outside of nobles' labors like manager etc.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
- I didn't bring any animals. That elf was a wagon puller, as evidenced by only the other wagon puller in the background, the horse.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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FantasticDorf

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Re: The Civilization Cookbook
« Reply #63 on: July 18, 2021, 12:10:51 pm »

By the powers of my threadromancy, arise.  :P



Still a work in progress with my full planned total conversion execution but you can make civilizations who's sole purpose is to invade the world's (from no starting civilization completely spontaneously and randomly) dwarf-holds in overwhelming numbers by abusing the [MINING_UNDERWORLD_DISASTERS] through skewing the dark fortress criteria.

Url: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178697.0

Setup

The race selection for underworld disasters requires a certain archetype of being which we'll nickname a underling, because normally these are the faceless footsoldiers of demons, nonhistorical populations which quickly fade or settle in.  To actually enable underlings, they need to be in a civilization (a dark fortress directly but it can be others, so prune for the correct race and dark fortress site) and the creature must be [EVIL] on their creature token.

With the underlings sorted, and in vanilla gameplay (which would be solely goblins)  accompanying demons, setting the generated world setting demon-cap to 0 will render the HFS a demon-free zone and give it entirely to the underlings as a side effect with uncountable amounts of these creatures wandering around, & greeting you when you inevitably breach the HFS. This applies simultaneously to all underlings that could *POSSIBLY* be created at once out of existing valid entities.

- If there are no possibility of a [MINING_UNDERWORLD_DISASTERS] occuring without a tag, you could still simulate them as "underworld denizens" in a non-loading dark-fortress site.


Positions

In at least 47.05, dark towers can be used in modding and have a handful of modifiable inbuilt postions. Most importantly is the singular required [LAW_MAKING] position held by the master, which can be edited with the hard-coded position [POSITION:WORSHIP_HF] for a required central leader, from that point onwards its the same as any other entity civilization. They can have a seperate [MONARCH] role summonable in fortress mode, but it will always be subservient to the [WORSHIP_HF] primarily.

Attempting to add a religious responsibility figure who is not a [POSITION:DRUID] will cause it to crash, and when there are demons present through a use of WORSHIP_HF to raise the spire of slade in w.g and give over a normal dark_fortress civilization, the hardcoded demon-leaders are preset in their title and responsibilties, but the title is passed over and then is fufilled to what you define in the entity file.


In gameplay

Races which are outsider adventurer accesible can still be played of these races, but your invader-race wont be playable until they actually emerge (still needs thorough playtesting, i assume this is the case.) so the w.g needs some buffer playable races to start up, as the invader races are unloaded. It also has a unfortunate side effect of limiting the site types minus one, though the invaders can still build dark pits and presumably dark towers of their own with enough growth later.

- The chance of a mining disaster uprising chooses a particular entity of underlings are split in halves, thirds, quarters etc by the amount of accessible candidates with civilizations, meaning that each playthrough of a world and consecutive disaster can have radically different political outcomes firing at random times.


Other details

- A tip for a "sticky" race that can quickly populate overrun dwarf ruins and spread outwards is to give them a animalistic or semi-intelligent caste-member(s), and then modify sexual preferences to deflect unwillingness to procreate. Most easily on in-humanoid civilizations would be to simply make the main race [NO_GENDER]. Then have this specific animal caste be subect to entity [ANIMAL_ALWAYS_AVAILIBLE] with [PET_EXOTIC] and least one clause for the race to use them, such as war-beasts.

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EI #1 Animal Castes - I created a orcish snotling, they are unintelligent animals with male and female counterparts and are imported in with [PET_EXOTIC][PET_ALWAYS_AVAILIBLE] and are [ALWAYS_PET] [ORIENTATION: ((heterosexual values))] & [LUST_PROPENSITY:100] taking up no civilian space in fortress mode. If i did not want to home rear orcs accidentally like by raiding their sites for animals except for specific circumstances, i can attach a self maintaining infertility script which can be attached to a wider code-wrapper like you might do with DFMasterwork Meph Launcher to check which settings are enabled.

Orcish snotlings mean new trojan-horse orc-goblin adults with [NO_GENDER] are born repeatedly and not auto-removed as nonhistorical nonbreeding pops, achieving a aesthetic and practical way for them to infest a area.

EI #2 Mixed animal/semiintelligent castes - Skavenslaves and skaven females are not the same, skavenfemales are [PET_EXOTIC] animals purely and skavenslaves are semi-intelligent non-speakers, but becuase neither accomodate a need for marriage and recognize each other as the sexes of the same species, they can with influence of orientation and lust tags be encouraged to solely mate with one another  keeping the population afloat

Meanwhile i can import both kinds of creature seperately with tokenized [CREATURE_ALWAYS_AVAILIBLE]((speaking pet exotics yields non-livestock semi-intelligent citizens which can be undesirable without dfhack manager controls with none of the benefits of full intelligents)) to fufill my inhouse fortress functions as well as healthy w.g. My "higher functioning" males, to stop them attempting to procreate, can be assigned 0:0:0 total lust and love propensity mixed with [ORIENTATION:((asexual values)).

EI #3 Extrenous Castes - These are creatures unintelligent or otherwise that birth a creature that are homereared citizens, but are distinct species for whatever setting you have in mind. Usage of position to rule over or feed a particular central vampiric caste can be useful, as bloodthirsting needs unconcious sentient minds and creatures in advantageous positions ignore personal reports about traits they have and maintain their need for blood. Don't worry about the villagers, you can just buy more next season.

EI #4 Mixed Civilized/semiintelligent extrenous castes - By segregating groups of speaking semi-intelligents, and also importing them into the civ, you can make diverse sub-species almost that keep to themselves with branches of 'civilians' born to expand your race. Using oreintation should allow their interaction to be one sided so that civilized races desire to marry, while subservient lesser castes form lover-bonds.

This is quite good on "faction" race settings like humans, by through the introduction of a "From X Rural Immigrant" semi-intelligent creature you can achieve many types of in-setting "castes", semi-intelligents can also be inducted into the military to bulk up your forces with ahem... yokels directly, or passively in wg and sieges by enabling their accepted creature class inside the criteria, while reserving the creature leading the captain squad (used for siege-waves) as a full intelligent citizen.
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WonderPsycho

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Re: The Civilization Cookbook
« Reply #64 on: September 23, 2022, 02:43:15 am »

PTW, seems like a thread up my ally, might post some stuff related to civ mod cooking here maybe, arise old thread from your ashes by the names of the almighty necrothread gods!!!
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IndigoFenix

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Re: The Civilization Cookbook
« Reply #65 on: September 23, 2022, 04:31:06 am »

I should really update the front page.  Maybe also add a link to my entity relationship tweaking utility.
EDIT: Updated.
EDIT: Updated again, now with more information regarding nobles, land holders and armies.

WonderPsycho

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Re: The Civilization Cookbook
« Reply #66 on: September 23, 2022, 01:10:01 pm »

I should really update the front page.  Maybe also add a link to my entity relationship tweaking utility.
EDIT: Updated.
EDIT: Updated again, now with more information regarding nobles, land holders and armies.
nice
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JPapas

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Re: The Civilization Cookbook
« Reply #67 on: October 05, 2022, 03:45:20 am »

As an adventurer-only player, one thing the recent versions have made me think about a lot more is the way different civ entities have different lists of item recipes - as this information is now more clearly visible to the player through the new adventurer character creation system and its starting equipment list. I'm curious as to what determines what items are and aren't available to a civ, as well as what materials.
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Eric Blank

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Re: The Civilization Cookbook
« Reply #68 on: October 17, 2022, 11:57:54 pm »

There's a whole bunch of different tokens, listed here: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Entity_token

Important ones for items include WEAPON, AMMO, DIGGER, ARMOR, PANTS, HELM, GLOVES, SHOES, SHIELD, among various others. There's a whole bunch of tokens that define what kinds of animals and plants they are allowed to use (but that also depends on their environment, i.e. theyll always have access to camels if they use common domestics, because camels have the common domestic flag, but not desert tortoises unless they have a site near a desert where desert tortoises live.) Then there's STONE_PREF, METAL_PREF, and GEM_PREF, which let them use the stones and jewels in their environment, and metal pref let's them use cages and crafts. Then there's reactions, which give access to materials they produce in forms like bars and boulders (dwarves always have access to steel and bronze and various trade alloys for example because they have reactions that produce those). And the ANIMAL tokens that give access to specific creatures now.
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