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Author Topic: Best armour setup  (Read 5637 times)

River Rat

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Re: Best armour setup
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2015, 11:43:44 pm »

What about leggings? Are they interchangeable with greaves?
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Borge

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Re: Best armour setup
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2015, 11:57:39 pm »

Much point in using candy armor over Steel armor, even if its easily achievable? Dwarves get legendary armor user rather quickly, so weight isn't an issue. And unless you're fighting a Steel bull forgotten beast, Steel should block any weapon that is used against your dwarves. And because of the weight of Steel, it blocks blunt damage much better than candy correct? In my mind candy armor would cause many broken bones, since it is 1/3 the weight of wood, and any attack would get converted to blunt damage.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 12:02:50 am by Borge »
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origamiscienceguy

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Re: Best armour setup
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2015, 12:17:48 am »

candy is a MUCH beter armor because of its hardness. Weight has a very limited effect on the effect of armor, on the contrary, lightweight armor is faster to move in. Candy armor is better in every way.

Think of it this way, candy armor is so hard, it distributes the hammer weight perfectly across the entire body.
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Borge

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Re: Best armour setup
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2015, 12:31:51 am »

candy is a MUCH beter armor because of its hardness. Weight has a very limited effect on the effect of armor, on the contrary, lightweight armor is faster to move in. Candy armor is better in every way.

Think of it this way, candy armor is so hard, it distributes the hammer weight perfectly across the entire body.

Is it any faster to move in for a legendary armor user though? I found candy to have better success in arena against copper maces too. Thanks.
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Skullsploder

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Re: Best armour setup
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2015, 12:37:24 am »

I didn't test this personally, but someone made a thread earlier which showed that in 40.xx, steel everything with an addy shirt is definitely better by a long way than addy everything against blunt damage.

This is because the game now considers the density of armour pieces as a buffer against blunt damage, along with their hardness... but since mail provides no blunt protection anyway, it's best to use addy for it. You never fight enemies with steel or better weaponry except in mods, so steel will still stop everything pointy, and will absorb the converted blunt damage better than addy. It's also cheaper.

Oh and greaves > leggings. Leggings are chain mail but greaves are plate, so greaves provide blunt protection.

Being speedy is good, but being fully protected is better. What my tests showed was that once you have every body part covered in a layer of chain and plate as far as possible, it's detrimental to pile on more. But go to the arena and take a unit without breastplate or greaves against one with. The breastplate and greaves unit will start winning consistently at moderate skills. Without breastplate or greaves, the upper body, lower body, and upper legs are vulnerable to blunt damage - including converted blunt damage. This is bad, because a bruised lung will put a fighter in dire straits, as will a fractured bone in their upper leg or pelvis or a fractured rib or even just severe bruising.
But if you're short on metal, it is better to give everyone that minimalist armour set than spending twice as much metal  per head for the full protection.
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utunnels

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Re: Best armour setup
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2015, 12:41:36 am »

Oops, lost my post.

I don't think you need to worry too much about their speed. Also, enemies usually don't have armor piercing weapons.
I always choose plate types first and add chain types when I can.

Usually you have enough time to train your soldiers. They build up their stength and skills pretty fast. I heard wood shields are better than metal ones. But in my experience, it doesn't matter.

Weak dorfs can be slowed by full metal, but on the other hand, they shouldn't be sent into battles until they become tougher.
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Centigrade

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Re: Best armour setup
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2015, 12:45:32 pm »

You want an adamantine mail shirt, and steel everything else. Adamantine is great against everything but bludgeoning attacks, for which the steel rigid bits handle. Steel has high enough armor deflection to be functionally as good as adamantine in most cases, but you really do not want to get your legs or torso pierced or severed. An argument could be made for using a full set of adamantine if and only if you have one of the relatively rare, procedurally generated monsters that are made of steel or adamantine.
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Verjigorm

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Re: Best armour setup
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2015, 12:53:24 pm »

For the love of Armok, can we stop calling it "chain mail".   It's just mail.   There's no type of mail that isn't made of interconnected rings of metal.  Mail was such a common component of protection for almost 2000 years, that it became synonmyous with armor.   Then the victorians started trying to figure out how to label all the different types of armor, and they used mail as a synonym for armor.   So you had Plate Mail, Scale Mail, Chain Mail, etc.   And then D&D in the made it a popular term.   

But the world mail comes from the latin word Mataglia, or "mesh".  Let's just call it what it is:  Mail, and call the other types of armor what they are:  Plate(or Harness), Scale, Lamellar, etc.   
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fartron

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Re: Best armour setup
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2015, 12:59:32 pm »

I thought mail was a lot better at blocking arrows than plate. That's why I've been including leggings.
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Centigrade

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Re: Best armour setup
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2015, 01:01:06 pm »

For the love of Armok, can we stop calling it "chain mail".   It's just mail.   There's no type of mail that isn't made of interconnected rings of metal.  Mail was such a common component of protection for almost 2000 years, that it became synonmyous with armor.   Then the victorians started trying to figure out how to label all the different types of armor, and they used mail as a synonym for armor.   So you had Plate Mail, Scale Mail, Chain Mail, etc.   And then D&D in the made it a popular term.   

But the world mail comes from the latin word Mataglia, or "mesh".  Let's just call it what it is:  Mail, and call the other types of armor what they are:  Plate(or Harness), Scale, Lamellar, etc.   

What? Use the actual words for things?

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Skullsploder

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Re: Best armour setup
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2015, 05:43:31 pm »

Leggings and greaves are both [SHAPED] and thus a dwarf can't wear both. Greaves are better because unless the enemy somehow has steel bolts, the ability of plate to block impact trumps the ability of chain to block arrows.

@Verjigorm: aight, from now on I'll only say "chain" or "mail," and avoid saying "chain mail"
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Bumber

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Re: Best armour setup
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2015, 04:59:44 am »

For the love of Armok, can we stop calling it "chain mail". It's just mail. There's no type of mail that isn't made of interconnected rings of metal.
Except the kind you put stamps on.
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: Best armour setup
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2015, 08:52:48 am »

It being called chain mail has been around since 1822, so it's hardly a new thing. Still incorrect ,but hardly worth getting annoyed over.
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k9wazere

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Re: Best armour setup
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2015, 09:42:56 am »

So, assuming you're correct and speed is more important than protection for recruits, the best setup for low armor user skill would be: helm, mail shirt, gauntlets, high boots.  When they get to higher armor skill and are less limited by encumbrance, add on greaves and a breastplate.  Right?

Depends if you want them to enter active service immediately.

Back in DF2012, I did some arena testing which showed me that dorfs gained armour skill fastest wearing a breastplate and nothing else. I didn't document it at the time, and it might not hold true for DF2014.

I had been having trouble turning raw recruits into highly trained killing machines, and it was the first time I'd used the Arena function. Which turned out to be a lot more fun than I'd imagined ;) I kind of got distracted pitting vampire dragons against Bronze Collosai...
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Best armour setup
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2015, 09:55:47 am »

Op asked for .34, was slowing down a things back then?
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