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Author Topic: Religion and Spirituality: Gloves Off  (Read 2519 times)

k33n

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Religion and Spirituality: Gloves Off
« on: February 12, 2015, 04:32:07 pm »

The topic is Religion and Spirituality. The discussions are unlimited. Try not to attack the individual posting, but rather the arguments that they are posting.

The other thread got locked because I made moral judgements about religion. As I feel that moral systems require moral critique and discussion, I have made this thread so that we have a place to discuss 'spicey' issues of religion and spirituality. Or not spicy ones. Feel free to post whatever, so long as it is accordance with the board rules.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 05:20:35 pm by k33n »
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MonkeyHead

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Re: Religion and Spirituality: My side is not the rules.
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2015, 04:38:56 pm »

PTW, though I really do not expect this to go well nor last long.
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ShadowHammer

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Re: Religion and Spirituality: My side is not the rules.
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2015, 04:41:09 pm »

You may want to reconsider how successful a thread is likely to be when you make the title a snark about someone else's thread on the same topic, and when the first post is openly defamatory (with hidden defamation as a bonus extra) and completely lacking in rules or structure.
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k33n

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Re: Religion and Spirituality: My side is not the rules.
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2015, 04:41:14 pm »

Hiding behind high school mindsets and a meme that mocked a mentally ill child with a hat is extremely unbecoming. Dick move

And no, citation are not needed. Is perfectly acceptable to logically discuss the consequences of beliefs and ideas without an appeal to authority. The more backing you give something, the better
You base a religion on what it had led to in the pass. Considering a lot of these "bad" actions that were done were usually using religion as an excuse for other motives. Along with not necessarily everyone who would say they are a part of a certain religion interprets all of the religious texts and even common ideas of said religions the same. Religion isn't necessarily bad, it's the people that follow it.

Also, don't be so hostile

I became hostile only when an offensive meme based on the internet rage at an autistic child with a fedora was implied. Using the mental illness of a little boy to smear an argument is not justified and should offend anyone. I have also shown no hostility to any poster on this thread, though I will admit I feel contempt for Religion and I feel that this is justified and can not be taken as offensive toward any individual poster.

Moving on to an actual point: I would strongly argue that the people who follow a religion are not necessarily bad, it the Religion that they follow. For example when I said:
Quote
the first quote can and has been used to justify killing and torturing the infidel and heretic lest they lead people or themselves astray from Eternal Life.
I refer to the central concept of salvation and eternal life exclusively through the believe and following the word of Christ. This salvation is literally the meaning and purpose of life in the Christian worldview. Following this concept to it's logical conclusions leads to several inhumane concepts: those who do not believe are not getting eternal life.

This 'us and them' mentality necessarily creates over hostility and xenophobia to those who reject the word of Christ, argue against it is possibly stealing eternal life from the community by leading them away from the path. This has been used by many church figures in history, a good example being Thomas Aquinas: http://www.scrollpublishing.com/store/Aquinas-Heretics.html.

I know from previous discussions on the forums that many of the Christians here believe that anyone who rejects the word of Christ are doomed to hell, or at least some form of atheistic non existence while the saved live forever.

This theological precedent also makes one thing very clear: if you care even slightly about your neighbors then it is of extreme importance to make sure that they too are saved: in practice this ranges from door to door conversions to the subjugation of entire societies by violence: no cost is too great for the eternal life of those you save. Even torture, violence, and inqusition has been done in the spirit of love and redemption.

I hope I have shown that the Religions and their theological ideas influence actions of believers, rather then Religions being books without content that are used by crazies to justify whatever they want.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 04:52:25 pm by k33n »
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Rolan7

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Re: Religion and Spirituality: My side is not the rules.
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2015, 04:47:34 pm »

I think it's wise for everyone to cool off a bit before continuing the argument from that thread.  I typed up a constructive argument and was disappointed when I wasn't able to post it...  But I respect the idea of letting people cool down.

I'm assuming that's why Orange Wizard locked it.  Just in general, I wish people would explain why they're locking, even if it's as simple as "This is out of hand, may or may not unlock later."

I am really glad I saved my post, though...  Did you try hitting back to recover it?  I've lost posts before and I absolutely *hate* the feeling.
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Bohandas

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Re: Religion and Spirituality: My side is not the rules.
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2015, 04:50:25 pm »

You may want to reconsider how successful a thread is likely to be when you make the title a snark about someone else's thread on the same topic, and when the first post is openly defamatory (with hidden defamation as a bonus extra) and completely lacking in rules or structure.

Still, I agree with the OP. Threads on this board seem to have a tendency get locked for little or no discernible reason. People make much ado about nothing. Mountains out of molehills. etc.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 04:51:58 pm by Bohandas »
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Teneb

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Re: Religion and Spirituality: My side is not the rules.
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2015, 04:51:49 pm »

You may want to reconsider how successful a thread is likely to be when you make the title a snark about someone else's thread on the same topic, and when the first post is openly defamatory (with hidden defamation as a bonus extra) and completely lacking in rules or structure.

Still, I agree with the OP. Threads on this board seem to get locked over very little. People make much ado about nothing

Threads in this board get locked because they get dangerously close to becoming a flame war. And when that happens, people get banned and Toady vetoes the creations of threads like those.
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Orange Wizard

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Re: Religion and Spirituality: My side is not the rules.
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2015, 04:51:57 pm »

I locked the old thread partly because of k33n's violations of the rules (after warnings) and partly to let everyone cool off. I'll unlock it later.

I won't be taking part in this thread, assuming it goes anywhere.
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Kassire

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Re: Religion and Spirituality: My side is not the rules.
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2015, 04:52:13 pm »

I recommend not starting threads for flamey topics like these were the last thread was locked for each party to cool off. Especially after 12 minutes of the first thread locking. And the fact there are rules that are not set in stone doesn't help. Hostility is never good, and especially when your blatantly making fun of the original Op of the other thread.
You may want to reconsider how successful a thread is likely to be when you make the title a snark about someone else's thread on the same topic, and when the first post is openly defamatory (with hidden defamation as a bonus extra) and completely lacking in rules or structure.

Still, I agree with the OP. Threads on this board seem to get locked for little or no discernible reason. People make much ado about nothing.
Religion is a pretty religion topic that can spiral out of control quickly.
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k33n

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Re: Religion and Spirituality: My side is not the rules.
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2015, 04:55:48 pm »

I updated my post, for those who wish to continue this lovely debate/discussion/argument. And again, I do not appreciate your defamation, as I did not break the rules. I broke the shit out of rule 4. You can run your thread however you want. I will not be closing this one when things get too hot or if I disagree with a poster. Anyone with any opinion, no matter how 'spicey' is welcome to post. I'd rather not post at all in a thread with a heavy handed moderation.

Moving forward.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 05:10:19 pm by k33n »
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k33n

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Re: Religion and Spirituality: My side is not the rules.
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2015, 04:57:35 pm »

duplicate
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k33n

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Re: Religion and Spirituality: My side is not the rules.
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2015, 04:57:59 pm »

duplicate
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Levi

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Re: Religion and Spirituality: My side is not the rules.
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2015, 05:09:37 pm »

This is funny, its almost exactly what happened to the rage thread today.
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Kassire

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Re: Religion and Spirituality: My side is not the rules.
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2015, 05:10:56 pm »

This is funny, its almost exactly what happened to the rage thread today.
Maybe without Toady interfering. Could happen, hopefully not though.
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k33n

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Re: Religion and Spirituality: My side is not the rules.
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2015, 05:11:56 pm »

This is funny, its almost exactly what happened to the rage thread today.

Do you think that Religions are good, but bad people lead the religion astray, or do you feel that Religions are bad, and good people are led astray by religion?
If either why?
If neither, why not?

Same with the above poster . I'd rather get the gears turning on this thread's topic, as I didn't make it for meta discussion or flaming.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 05:14:13 pm by k33n »
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