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Author Topic: Amputate Infected Bodyparts  (Read 1665 times)

HmH

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Amputate Infected Bodyparts
« on: February 02, 2015, 02:27:19 pm »

Lots of dwarves die from untreated infections. Not all of them have the Recuperation and Disease Resistance necessary to recover from it, and even with high stats, the dwarf isn't guaranteed to survive. Due to the nature of armor system, wounds such as smashed fingernails and broken fingers are impossible to prevent, so there must be some way to treat them.

The simplest solution is to amputate the infected bodypart. That's how doctors in real life dealt with infected wounds before antibiotics, after all.
Sure, the dwarf will be a cripple, but at least he won't die of something as embarassing as an infected nail. (And your surgeons will finally start to rack up experience at the same rate as suturers and cleaners, he he he.)

UPD: Right now infections don't seem to trigger the "cut it off!" response as they should; that is reserved for rotten flesh. In real world, necrotized tissues are dangerous because they get infected, so I don't see any particular difference between the two.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 02:53:49 pm by HmH »
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Ngosp Umbabok

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Re: Amputate Infected Bodyparts
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2015, 02:46:04 pm »

This should definitely be an option.
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Badger Storm

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Re: Amputate Infected Bodyparts
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2015, 03:03:50 pm »

Ah, but what if the patient doesn't want amputation?  What if they would rather walk around until they die, leaving pools of pus wherever they go (how do you even get a pool's worth of pus?) rather than live with the massive blow to both working ability and body image.  They might react violently, grab the bone saw, and go after the poor surgeon.  There's fun for you right there.

Also, not all infections are gangrene.  An abscess, for example, you might be able to just drain.  The cleanliness of your fortress, however, would be a big factor in whether it heals up or gets infected with something even nastier. 

This would be something appropriately grisly and realistic for the game, and it would be neat to have it, but I don't think anyone wants their legendary weaponsmith's new nickname to become UristMcNubs because of one infected hangnail.

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HmH

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Re: Amputate Infected Bodyparts
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2015, 03:17:58 pm »

Ah, but what if the patient doesn't want amputation?  What if they would rather walk around until they die, leaving pools of pus wherever they go (how do you even get a pool's worth of pus?) rather than live with the massive blow to both working ability and body image.  They might react violently, grab the bone saw, and go after the poor surgeon.  There's fun for you right there.

Also, not all infections are gangrene.  An abscess, for example, you might be able to just drain.  The cleanliness of your fortress, however, would be a big factor in whether it heals up or gets infected with something even nastier. 

This would be something appropriately grisly and realistic for the game, and it would be neat to have it, but I don't think anyone wants their legendary weaponsmith's new nickname to become UristMcNubs because of one infected hangnail.
I guess this could be implemented by assigning certain values of stress to surgical operations, but that's a separate suggestion entirely: adapting healthcare to the new happiness system.

True, not all infections demand radical forms of treatment, and perhaps operations such as "puncture an abscess" or "excise infected tissue" could also be included.
And there's a pretty good chance of repeat infections, especially with a low-level surgeon. But we're talking about dwarves here, the sort of people who are perfectly fine with amputating a patient's pancreas if the chief medical dwarf tells them to. Mengele's dream assistants, in other words. They'll just keep cutting off the infected bodyparts until either the surgeon levels up enough, or there are no more bodyparts left to infect.

I don't think anyone wants their legendary weaponsmith's new nickname to become UristMcDead, either, which is the way things happen in the game right now. (And I'm pretty sure civilian dwarves don't need hands to do their jobs.)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 03:53:08 pm by HmH »
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Badger Storm

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Re: Amputate Infected Bodyparts
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2015, 05:28:24 pm »

I had always understood that with both his hands gone, a dwarf wasn't really able to do a whole lot, and that there would be tons of cancel spam as he tried to do the simplest of things, like clean himself or get dressed, and that he became dead weight, really.  Has this been changed in recent versions?  The wiki has conflicting information on this.

Honestly, the first idea was taken from Zafehouse Diaries and the second one kind of comes from my horror of amputation.  It's just so irreversible, and it's literally taking away part of you.  I don't like to see it done unless absolutely necessary (or unless you can get sweet robot arms to fix it).
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IndigoFenix

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Re: Amputate Infected Bodyparts
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2015, 10:07:25 am »

Honestly, the first idea was taken from Zafehouse Diaries and the second one kind of comes from my horror of amputation.  It's just so irreversible, and it's literally taking away part of you.  I don't like to see it done unless absolutely necessary (or unless you can get sweet robot arms to fix it).

Robot arms are unlikely, but peg-legs, hook hands, and false teeth would be nice, and well within the technology of the era.
If they were rawable (let's say, a tool with a tag like [TOOL_USE:REPLACE_BODYPART:BP:BY_TYPE:GRASP]) then you could even mod in robot parts if you wanted.

Waparius

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Re: Amputate Infected Bodyparts
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2015, 12:52:37 am »

Honestly, the first idea was taken from Zafehouse Diaries and the second one kind of comes from my horror of amputation.  It's just so irreversible, and it's literally taking away part of you.  I don't like to see it done unless absolutely necessary (or unless you can get sweet robot arms to fix it).

Robot arms are unlikely, but peg-legs, hook hands, and false teeth would be nice, and well within the technology of the era.
If they were rawable (let's say, a tool with a tag like [TOOL_USE:REPLACE_BODYPART:BP:BY_TYPE:GRASP]) then you could even mod in robot parts if you wanted.

Presumably they'd have to take into account that those prosthetics would only go so far to replace the old limb. There ought to be a way to cover how good they can get, such as a set of tags (for mod-friendliness) or similar. One peg-leg below the knee won't slow a person down too much, but two would require crutches, and losing a leg above the knee probably isn't worth replacing. A hook-hand is much more debilitating, but modders may want hand replacements to be able reach peg-leg levels of functionality.

Maybe if the game gets more tools, prosthetics could be handled as a sort of permanent tool used by that limb? If, say, cargo hooks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook_%28hand_tool%29) were implemented (an implement that makes it easier to carry and manipulate certain objects) then prosthetic hooks would just continue that functionality. Similarly for axes, picks, hammers, and other handtools or weapons (maybe with tags like [IMPRECISE] or something so you don't find dwarves with prosthetic chisels, I don't know).

Of course that would require the game to go down the rabbithole of Lots Of Tools Required.
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TheHossofMoss

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Re: Amputate Infected Bodyparts
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2015, 05:03:21 pm »

This would be excellent. Especially with dwarfs that have been bitten by werebeasts.

My marksdwarf was bitten on the fourth finger, left hand, by a Werelizard. Fortunately for her (and her husband), the beast bit it off completely. Then he ripped off her shoe, and then pulled off her sock. He began to beat her with the silk sock, which was hilarious. She hasn't turned, and it's been two years since that incident.

So this would kinda feel like a zombie movie, if it's a hand or a leg, you may be able to save the person by amputating the infected limb. However, if you're bitten on the neck or torso... it's all ogre for you now.
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Charles2531

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Re: Amputate Infected Bodyparts
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2015, 02:38:07 pm »

Yes. Animals too if possible. I recently had a fortress that got attacked by a forgotten beast with some type of toxic blood. All the dogs got necrosis (on their toes) and filled the fortress with miasma until they died. I don't see why the dogs keeping their toes is more important than the happiness of the dwarves.