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[GoblinCookie]

Trolls are not people as far as the game is concerned.  They are trainable underground animals, which the game presently always assembles an immense number of due to a bug.

The solution to goblin numbers is simply to force them to eat and drink.  Trolls I am not sure about, I solved the problem by making trolls intelligent but I also gave them an entity of their own. 

Making trolls INTELLIGENT rather than CAN_LEARN should eliminate trolls from goblin forts altogether.  You can also give them the GOOD tag otherwise. 

[vjmdhzgr]

Trolls are not people as far as the game is concerned.  They are trainable underground animals, which the game presently always assembles an immense number of due to a bug.

The solution to goblin numbers is simply to force them to eat and drink.  Trolls I am not sure about, I solved the problem by making trolls intelligent but I also gave them an entity of their own. 

Making trolls INTELLIGENT rather than CAN_LEARN should eliminate trolls from goblin forts altogether.  You can also give them the GOOD tag otherwise.

You probably should have read the rest of the thread as that was already done. I'm also pretty sure [CAN_LEARN] is enough to stop animals from being domesticated in most cases, but goblins and trolls are special. I think it's the [USE_EVIL_ANIMALS] goblins have. I will however check if switching [CAN_LEARN] to [INTELLIGENT] stops trolls from being domesticated, and will edit this post soon.
UPDATE: I just tested it, [INTELLIGENT] definitely doesn't stop goblins from domesticating trolls. In a 125 year world with 4 goblins civs one had 3,000 trolls, one had 4,150, another had 4,900 (more trolls than goblins in that one), then the last had 2,100 trolls.

[scamtank]

Huh. I thought it was SLOW_LEARNER which opened up that avenue of evil pseudo-taming, but it seems like it's the lack of CAN_SPEAK instead.

[Putnam]

Tiger people could be tamed, IIRC, and they have CAN_SPEAK.

[Robsoie]

I believe any [CREATURES:...] that are not listed in the entity list (entity_default.txt) is considered an animal by the game, regardless or how intelligent or able to learn or speak they are.

Probably why Goblins (that have [CREATURES:GOBLIN] listed in the [ENTITY:EVIL] are able to use subterran races like trolls as animals but aren't able to use those subterran bat-men or serpent-men or etc.. because they have a [CREATURES:...] related entry in the [ENTITY:SUBTERRANEAN_ANIMAL_PEOPLES]

[Max™]

OH HO!

Ok, removing the no eat/drink tags AND the likes site: dark fortress seems like an interesting avenue for testing.

172 year world, really varied elevation, all three major races can build roads/tunnels/bridges to encourage lots of activity and access, this is what happened:

Code: [Select]

Civilized World Population

        13729 Dwarves
        21942 Humans
        4796 Elves
        8648 Goblins
        384 Kobolds

        Total: 49499

A couple sample sites:

Code: [Select]

7: Ugarkutsmob, "Metmenaced", dark fortress
        Owner: The Foolish Malice, goblins
        Parent Civ: The Jackal of Growths, goblins
        lord: Meng Whisperlances, dwarf
        46 humans
        44 dwarves
        66 elves
        1 three-eyed devil
        2501 goblins
        1350 trolls
        1350 ogres
        34 human prisoners
        33 dwarf prisoners
        3 elf prisonersStill a lot, but not 10k like sometimes happens.

Code: [Select]

9: Roslastdostngosp, "Frenzycruelty", dark fortress
        Owner: The Barbarity of Perfecting, goblins
        Parent Civ: The Scorpion of Celebration, goblins
        lord: Stasost Nightmareround the Bowel of Cradles, goblin
        58 dwarves
        16 elves
        4 humans
        51 goblins
        1 three-eyed devil
        350 trolls
        27 dwarf prisoners
        4 elf prisonersOh ho?

Code: [Select]

13: Olngomuk, "Monstrousmerchant", dark fortress
        Owner: The Monster of Fragmenting, goblins
        Parent Civ: The Lesser Savagery-Scourge, goblins
        lord: Snodub Evillabor the Dour Thorns, goblin
        75 dwarves
        18 elves
        178 goblins
        1 bison brute
        50 dwarf prisoners
        3 elf prisonersSo it's not a fluke, had another world that had a couple forts like that, tried again and it still happens.

Found some more looking through the file:

Code: [Select]

121: Snustrokmato, "Soilswraiths", dark fortress
        Owner: The Horror of Bugs, goblins
        Parent Civ: The Lesser Savagery-Scourge, goblins
        lady: Amxu Spiderspreads, goblin
        729 goblins

Code: [Select]

158: Nakoxud, "Tormentslits", dark fortress
        Owner: The Immorality of Memories, goblins
        Parent Civ: The Scorpion of Celebration, goblins
        lord: Utes Thiefdrools, goblin
        1233 goblins
        800 trolls

Code: [Select]

253: Ustuksos, "Nationsteal", dark fortress
        Owner: The Horror of Rags, goblins
        Parent Civ: The Scorpion of Celebration, goblins
        lord: Snang Nightmarebrutal the Satiny Sparkle of Burns, goblin
        822 goblins
        500 trolls

Code: [Select]

281: Snudduosnun, "Pointghoul", dark fortressYes that last one is totally empty.

Several regular fortresses with gobs in em, usually under 100, and the usual smattering of them mixed around in dark pits and towns and such.

Oh my god, this world is freaking amazing... so I check the fort mode screen to see how the situation looks from there... I check with the first civ of the five available and find:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nice! Wonder what the others have... nothing interesting, nothing interesting, nothing interesting, wait, what was that just now on the third civ?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oh good lord, gob war with one civ, elf war with another, in the middle of three towers with highways everywhere and reasonable populations of gobs... did I mention that there should be like 20 megabeasts around?

[Deon]

Trolls are not people as far as the game is concerned.  They are trainable underground animals, which the game presently always assembles an immense number of due to a bug.

The solution to goblin numbers is simply to force them to eat and drink.  Trolls I am not sure about, I solved the problem by making trolls intelligent but I also gave them an entity of their own. 

Making trolls INTELLIGENT rather than CAN_LEARN should eliminate trolls from goblin forts altogether.  You can also give them the GOOD tag otherwise.

You probably should have read the rest of the thread as that was already done. I'm also pretty sure [CAN_LEARN] is enough to stop animals from being domesticated in most cases, but goblins and trolls are special. I think it's the [USE_EVIL_ANIMALS] goblins have. I will however check if switching [CAN_LEARN] to [INTELLIGENT] stops trolls from being domesticated, and will edit this post soon.
UPDATE: I just tested it, [INTELLIGENT] definitely doesn't stop goblins from domesticating trolls. In a 125 year world with 4 goblins civs one had 3,000 trolls, one had 4,150, another had 4,900 (more trolls than goblins in that one), then the last had 2,100 trolls.

Did you try removing SLOW_LEARNER?

[vjmdhzgr]

Trolls are not people as far as the game is concerned.  They are trainable underground animals, which the game presently always assembles an immense number of due to a bug.

The solution to goblin numbers is simply to force them to eat and drink.  Trolls I am not sure about, I solved the problem by making trolls intelligent but I also gave them an entity of their own. 

Making trolls INTELLIGENT rather than CAN_LEARN should eliminate trolls from goblin forts altogether.  You can also give them the GOOD tag otherwise.

You probably should have read the rest of the thread as that was already done. I'm also pretty sure [CAN_LEARN] is enough to stop animals from being domesticated in most cases, but goblins and trolls are special. I think it's the [USE_EVIL_ANIMALS] goblins have. I will however check if switching [CAN_LEARN] to [INTELLIGENT] stops trolls from being domesticated, and will edit this post soon.
UPDATE: I just tested it, [INTELLIGENT] definitely doesn't stop goblins from domesticating trolls. In a 125 year world with 4 goblins civs one had 3,000 trolls, one had 4,150, another had 4,900 (more trolls than goblins in that one), then the last had 2,100 trolls.

Did you try removing SLOW_LEARNER?

It was quite a while ago, but no, I could try again. I'll check and then edit this post like I did with that one.
UPDATE: I removed [SLOW_LEARNER] from trolls in a completely vanilla game and the two goblin civs after 125 years did not have any trolls. One of them did have 1,076 ogres though.