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Author Topic: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!  (Read 562691 times)

Rince Wind

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6720 on: October 13, 2019, 12:43:09 pm »

Can't you just still play the original?
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Eschar

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6721 on: October 13, 2019, 12:45:39 pm »

Maybe they want to have some advantages of the modern UI. I dunno, just a guess.
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"Continue struggling, laws of physics be darned."
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"What, are you stupid or something? Every one of the snake's bones is crushed! Its internal organs are torn apart! There is no way you can - (6) You resuscitate the snake."
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Erk

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6722 on: October 13, 2019, 12:49:53 pm »

Instead of forking and going the same way as in the past forks with lack of devs, leading to too much work for a single guy, leading to project being abandoned is it actually possible to use the mod system of CDDA to recreate the original Cataclysm gameplay and content ?
Or are there too many game systems hardcoded that can't be modified with the mod system ?

If it's possible this would be the better solution then, this way as a mod it would have nothing to do with any direction or decision of CDDA itself and could be developped independantly without any impact on other people enjoyment of the default CDDA.
Now if too much is hardcoded , i guess out of a fork it's hopeless, and with how much work it is to maintain a fork without additional coders it's hopeless anyways.

The exact gameplay? No, probably not. If you wanted the exact gameplay, you could load up the original though. A similar game with several changes you didn't like removed, but taking advantage of improvements? Yes. You'd even be allowed to integrate code support for it, as demonstrated with magiclysm. That's what both Aftershock and Bright Nights were meant to be, but neither are being maintained (and we merged them together when Aftershock was abandoned so as not to have two unmaintained similar projects). Someone who wanted to do this would be quite welcome in the main project; there's certainly a niche for a cyberpunk near future game like the original cataclysm, it's just not what we're making in the core game.
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Robsoie

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6723 on: October 13, 2019, 12:55:49 pm »

Ah now that's interesting ,as this could keep devs inside of the project instead of them leaving for disagreeing with the main direction.
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dpwb

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6724 on: October 13, 2019, 01:12:30 pm »

Ah now that's interesting ,as this could keep devs inside of the project instead of them leaving for disagreeing with the main direction.

Well theres little danger of that with the current devs, we're all in broad agreement with the main direction.

The main reason we accept a more sci-fi mod into the fold and encourage people contributing to it, is that then hopefully we get less noise and complaining, because then we can point to that and say "play that mod", instead of people demanding we change what we are doing.

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Soadreqm

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6725 on: October 13, 2019, 01:41:45 pm »

Instead of forking and going the same way as in the past forks with lack of devs, leading to too much work for a single guy, leading to project being abandoned is it actually possible to use the mod system of CDDA to recreate the original Cataclysm gameplay and content ?
Or are there too many game systems hardcoded that can't be modified with the mod system ?

If it's possible this would be the better solution then, this way as a mod it would have nothing to do with any direction or decision of CDDA itself and could be developped independantly without any impact on other people enjoyment of the default CDDA.
Now if too much is hardcoded , i guess out of a fork it's hopeless, and with how much work it is to maintain a fork without additional coders it's hopeless anyways.
Whales made the original Cataclysm by himself. If you don't feel like putting in the effort, that's fine, but there's nothing hopeless about it.
Also, I don't think making drastic gameplay changes by editing the json files would necessarily be any easier than just editing the code. Sure, you wouldn't need to recompile the game to test it, but major changes are still going to be a lot of work, no matter the language.
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Erk

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6726 on: October 13, 2019, 01:48:19 pm »

Ah now that's interesting ,as this could keep devs inside of the project instead of them leaving for disagreeing with the main direction.

You guys keep bringing that up as if it's a major risk... the newest devs have been here over a year now, and most quite a lot longer. We became devs because we like the game Kevin wants to make and we also want to see it made. It's not like he has some kind of psionic sway over us.
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Robsoie

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6727 on: October 13, 2019, 03:33:03 pm »

I think it's always a risk when coding capable contributors are a finite ressource and are lost to forks and the resulting burn out, Coolthulhu by example had been active for 3 or 4 years contributing before being bothered enough with the disagreements to start his fork with all the concepts/ideas that were disagreed with by the other devs, with of course solo maintenance of a fork leading to too much work and so leaving.

If those disagreements could have instead be possible to get implemented through the mod system instead of working around hardcoded stuff, maybe he wouldn't have burned himself out with the forking (+ probably no other contributors didn't helped) and he would still contribute.

Oh and it's not a finger pointing to some devs or specific individual by the way as it's understandable that people disagree in a project or have different idea on which direction it must take, it's pointing that mods are good and can potentially settle things before they get heated.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 03:40:19 pm by Robsoie »
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Erk

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6728 on: October 13, 2019, 03:43:51 pm »

Don't forget there is generally a lifespan to contributors. I have no intention of playing and developing cataclysm for the rest of my life.
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Robsoie

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6729 on: October 13, 2019, 04:13:14 pm »

I see you forgot to read the lines in very small fonts on the account creating page :D
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Erk

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6730 on: October 13, 2019, 09:05:51 pm »

Damn, they always get me in the fine print. Well, apparently if I leave I owe Kevin my firstborn, so I guess I'll wait for when he's a teenager.
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Eschar

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6731 on: October 14, 2019, 06:45:05 am »

Damn, they always get me in the fine print. Well, apparently if I leave I owe Kevin my firstborn, so I guess I'll wait for when he's a teenager.

You're expected to train your firstborn in the art of C++ as well, so that the project doesn't lose net contributors if you leave. Eventually, there will be ancient lines of contributors, with warring dynasties shifting in allegiance day by day.

"Your father's brackets ... an elegant weapon from a more civilized age."
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"Continue struggling, laws of physics be darned."
 - NRDL
"What, are you stupid or something? Every one of the snake's bones is crushed! Its internal organs are torn apart! There is no way you can - (6) You resuscitate the snake."
- Gatleos

Kaitol

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6732 on: October 14, 2019, 05:05:00 pm »

The thing is, it isn't really Kevin's repository. He's like the fourth person in control of it. It was handed to him by the last guy because he was longest-standing active contributor.

The problem is, if Kevin wanted to change the game so drastically, why didn't he make his own fork in the early days? Why did he wait, and cooperate with the several previous owners and the community's vision of the game for YEARS until he was finally handed control, and then make his drastic changes and sudden complete shift of gameplay priorities?

If kevin wanted it to be his own game, then he should have made his own fork rather than working on the community version for years. It isn't his game, it's the game of everyone who contributed to it, it is the community's game. He was handed control of the GitHub and everything else with the understanding that he appreciated that and intended to continue in the same vein with an open, friendly, community-oriented project. And the fact that he now treats it like it's his own sole property and work is one of the big strikes against him.
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Soadreqm

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6733 on: October 15, 2019, 01:55:30 am »

Again, it's an open-source project. Nobody owns anything. To contribute code, you must legally relinquish all creative control over it.
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azmodean

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - 0.C is out! Our monsters fight each other!
« Reply #6734 on: October 15, 2019, 02:29:48 am »

That's it. I'm sick of all of you shittalking me and constantly insulting me behind my back.

What the hell have I ever done to all of you? Have I kidnapped your first-borns? I'm making the game that I WANT, and if you don't like it then you're free to fork it and make your own game without the big bad evil Kevin. Bitching about it on here will not do anything.

Fuck you, you are banished from CDDA. All of you. Stop playing my game if you hate it so much or make your own. Whatever you do, you're no longer welcome in my community. Not that you were ever a big part of it anyways, all you do is sit on this dark corner of the internet and shittalk me since Toady doesn't have the decency to stop this.
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