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Author Topic: Your dream game...  (Read 5475 times)

Turgid Bolk

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Re: Your dream game...
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2007, 12:48:00 pm »

It's funny that so many people like the idea of creating universes. According to some, we are almost certainly in someone's simulation. (No, the Matrix was not an original idea.) And we'll most likely make our own simulated universe, who will eventually become smart enough to make thier own simulation. Check out this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/14/science/14tier.html?ex=1190088000&en=2259af40 6ca806c7&ei=5070
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Tormy

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Re: Your dream game...
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2007, 04:25:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Janne Joensuu:
<STRONG>My first thought when I read through this post was "Hey, you're describing Dominions!" It's not a perfect match, but I'll detail the differences below.

Links to the official site: http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Illwinter/Dom3/1.htm
and demo: http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Illwinter/Dom3/6.htm


 

[ September 16, 2007: Message edited by: Janne Joensuu ]

[ September 16, 2007: Message edited by: Janne Joensuu ]

[ September 16, 2007: Message edited by: Janne Joensuu ]</STRONG>


Actually no. I have Dominions and it has some good ideas but whole game is just pretty average. The game what I described in my first post would be much more different. It was quite funny, many sites stated that dominions is a very complex game, but it is very far from the truth. It is a very simple game. [It is complex compared to the typical RTS games what we have in these years] Lot of spells and units means nothing when basically you wont use most of them...and yes Ive played multiplayer games also with Boron, QM and other "veteran" players. [the multiplayer community is quite dead in that game btw - side note]

Well obivously you cannot see that what game concept is hiding in my head, but it would be much more different/complex than Dominions 3 in almost everything.

[ September 18, 2007: Message edited by: Tormy ]

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Janne Joensuu

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Re: Your dream game...
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2007, 10:00:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Tormy:
<STRONG>

Actually no. I have Dominions and it has some good ideas but whole game is just pretty average. The game what I described in my first post would be much more different. It was quite funny, many sites stated that dominions is a very complex game, but it is very far from the truth. It is a very simple game. [It is complex compared to the typical RTS games what we have in these years] Lot of spells and units means nothing when basically you wont use most of them...and yes Ive played multiplayer games also with Boron, QM and other "veteran" players. [the multiplayer community is quite dead in that game btw - side note]

Well obivously you cannot see that what game concept is hiding in my head, but it would be much more different/complex than Dominions 3 in almost everything.

[ September 18, 2007: Message edited by: Tormy ]</STRONG>



It's true that Dominions isn't as complex as the number of units alone would imply. I'd say that it's more complex than other multiplayer TBS games on market ATM, though.  

I think that by "class sytem" and "experience & levels" you suggested, you meant something like the HoMM system in which heroes raise in various skills, or the ability to choose how a unit becomes better, like the Battle for Wesnoth system. These aren't bad in themselves, as long as the number of commanders/units is limited. However, if you're trying to control armies consisting of hundreds of units (like Dominions), or dozens of squads with varying amount of identical soldiers in them (like Total War games), upgrading the units would become a metagame in itself - and the more I've played, the more I want to play the big game and less the smaller games within it.
At worst, it could be like cities in Civilization games - cities are better if you irrigate all squares around them, and everything works better if you create roads between your cities, but you have to do this separately for each square, using settlers or engineers or what-have-you. I don't want to do that. I'd rather just find a city, and then set it to build "irrigation" inside the city menu. Similarly, I'd rather just recruit a soldier, and have him do what he's supposed to do. All options should be situational - as long as everything goes as it should, you shouldn't have to do anything. The experience in Dominions works like this. Wesnoth-style unit upgrades that change the unit's function (spearman to either swordman or pikeman or javelineer; elven warrior to either elven champion or elven hero), fore the player to make a decision, and slow the game down. I wouldn't want to play game where that was an option, because most often, using all options available to you is the best way to play, and that could easily make a game less fun to play.

City-building, on its own, isn't necessarily a bad thing either. It can be very fun. HoMM does it well, at least the older ones did. Building a building offers a benefit, like the recruitment of certain type of units. You have that benefit to the end of the game, and you only have about dozen choices. You might have to specialize (ONLY top-tier infantry OR top-tier archers), but you shouldn't have to keep going back to the old cities to add yet another new building (market, trading ship, bank, internet business). So no to Civilization-style, ever-growing list of buildings.

I'm not sure what's your thought on the multiplayer community. Did you play on IRC, or the slower e-mail/server games? The IRC was quite slow last I visited it, but it seemed there were still enough people to play with. The forum games seem to be a bit more popular, perhaps because the forum has more members now that the modding feature has gotten more following.

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Tormy

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Re: Your dream game...
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2007, 11:59:00 am »

Well basically my idea about the military system is something like this:
Player would be able to:

- recruit "regular - race specific" units. Units can gain xp via training or battles. Soldiers can advance levels like in an RPG game. When a unit is reaching a new level there would be many options to upgrade him. [something like a "feat" system. Example: ability to wear chainmail/platemail/enchanced armors/enchanced weapons, battle specific skills like cleave/backstab, magic related upgrades etc.] The base stats of the units would been raised
after level up. The player would be able to spend points to raise the str/dex/sta etc. of the specific unit.
- equip each and every units personally. Depending on what equipment is available, and that what weapons + armors a specific unit can use [linked to the upgrade system. The interface to upgrade units would be similar what you can see in RPG games.
- tame/breed warbeasts and monsters. Monsters and beasts must be captured, and taken to the beast tamer. The tamer would breed them. After breeding they must be tamed. Beasts can be carried in cages. If the creatures are not tamed, they couldnt wear armors/weapons and when they lvl up the player couldnt adjust their skills, however they can still be used in the battles. Just release them from the cages, and they will wander on the battlefield looking for targets. These untamed beasts can also attack the units of his master, so taming beasts would been much better in all aspects. [Of course it would require time] These entities would also level up. All creatures would have a specific upgrade path. Example: Ogres could be trained to use weapons or wear armors, but wardogs could only wear special armors.
- construct siege weaponry and other mechanical units like ballista etc.
- summon creatures on the battlefield [these would disappear after the battle] or summon creatures as a global spell. These units wouldnt disappear but they would requite specific resource to keep them alive. Some of these can also be equipped and can gain levels.

These are just few ideas for the military system. While some of them are in Dominions 3., this would be a much more complex system compared to that. I would say a much more deeper and polished system.

[ September 19, 2007: Message edited by: Tormy ]

[ September 19, 2007: Message edited by: Tormy ]

[ September 19, 2007: Message edited by: Tormy ]

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FaultyLogic

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Re: Your dream game...
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2007, 02:02:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Grek:
<STRONG>A game with 100% realistic physics right down to the subatomic level, but you can change the laws of physics at will. You and watch the universe take shape, with occasional changes on your part. Sadly, you would need a planet sized computer to play it.</STRONG>

I have a planet-sized computer

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Name Lips

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Re: Your dream game...
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2007, 02:38:00 pm »

Spore.

I'm sure the hype and anticipation are going to be better than the end result (they always are). But right now, in my mind, what I IMAGINE it will be, It's the best. game. evar.

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mickel

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Re: Your dream game...
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2007, 05:20:00 pm »

I keep having lots of ideas and concepts for games I'd like to see developed, but without a game studio to back me, it's not like that will ever happen...   :(
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qwertyuiopas

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Re: Your dream game...
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2007, 08:27:00 pm »

My idea: like Ogame, but 3D interface, many control levels:
regular,
control fleet,
control ship,
control person on ship leading fleet,
control ship captain,
control person on ship.

and ground battles

and you can explore cities, and even(if you want) sabotage your own stuff from 1st person.

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Janne Joensuu

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Re: Your dream game...
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2007, 10:58:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Tormy:
<STRONG>- equip each and every units personally. Depending on what equipment is available, and that what weapons + armors a specific unit can use [linked to the upgrade system. The interface to upgrade units would be similar what you can see in RPG games.

These are just few ideas for the military system. While some of them are in Dominions 3., this would be a much more complex system compared to that. I would say a much more deeper and polished system.</STRONG>


While I agree that this would be a much more complex system, and would probably offer many more options than the Dominions model, I don't think I'd like a game with such an emphasis on micromanagement. I'd like to discuss the whys further, but I won't have reliable internet access for almost two weeks, starting from tomorrow. Any way, it's basically what I wrote before - if I want to control units, I want to control units and little else (Total War etc); if I want to breed monsters, I breed monsters (Pokemon etc); if I want to level up my character, I'll play a crpg of some sort (like Dungeon Crawl, or some other roguelike). Trying to do all at once slows all parts of it down too much for my like. It could still be a good game, though - it just wouldn't be to my spesific tastes.

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qwertyuiopas

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Re: Your dream game...
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2007, 06:19:00 pm »

My dream game is Dwarf Fortress final version, with 3D, and no lag. and air pressure, but with a toggle option.
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Tormy

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Re: Your dream game...
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2007, 07:17:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Janne Joensuu:
<STRONG>

While I agree that this would be a much more complex system, and would probably offer many more options than the Dominions model, I don't think I'd like a game with such an emphasis on micromanagement. I'd like to discuss the whys further, but I won't have reliable internet access for almost two weeks, starting from tomorrow. Any way, it's basically what I wrote before - if I want to control units, I want to control units and little else (Total War etc); if I want to breed monsters, I breed monsters (Pokemon etc); if I want to level up my character, I'll play a crpg of some sort (like Dungeon Crawl, or some other roguelike). Trying to do all at once slows all parts of it down too much for my like. It could still be a good game, though - it just wouldn't be to my spesific tastes.</STRONG>


Actually it wouldnt be such hardcore as you think. In dominions you can control hundreds or thousands of units. In my dream game you would control much less. Each and every unit in the army would be important. Think about a game like Age of Wonders but with a much more complex military system. As for the number of units...well of course there wouldnt be limit regarding the numbers, however all units would have upkeep [gold/food/special resources/mana etc.] These would limit the size of the armies. Of course bigger empire -> bigger army.
Ive never considered Doms 3. a complex game ever. Regular strategy players might consider it a complex game at first look, but its very far from "complex". I dont say that its bad, however the market would need a real hardcore - complex strategy game. That is my dream game.    :)
Why? Because lots of people are waiting for a game like that, but sadly there wont be any. If I would have a few millions to spend, I wouldnt hesitate to hire developers to make this game.   :D

[ September 20, 2007: Message edited by: Tormy ]

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qwertyuiopas

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Re: Your dream game...
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2007, 08:33:00 pm »

It would be better with an "explore the world" mode like DF's adventure mode.
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: Your dream game...
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2007, 02:46:00 am »

It's hard to settle on any one specific dream game, but if I were to give one idea, my dream game would be a sort of tactical and social hybrid game in either a post-apocalyptic setting or an off-world colony on a relatively desolate world with a few settlements. It would not play like classic dungeons and dragons inspired role-playing games, but a combination of a group-based tactical game with a more freestyle Sims-like toybox/dollhouse simulation, where you can control multiple characters in a gang or family of sorts that move around together and can be productive and/or fight stuff.

Combat would take inspiration from the Games Workshop tabletop game Gorkamorka, in which you would control a gang of Orks as they rode around the desert on trucks and bikes collecting scrap and fighting, gaining experience as they raced around such. The exact implementation I would like to see would be more like the game X-Com's tactical combat, but having a "team" or "gang" of distinct recruited characters which ride around together and have adventures is an important aspect of the idea, and to fight scavenger wars in the wilderness with rival gangs or hostile locals fits the feel I'm going for.

Individual members of the gang have their own skill sets and abilities, no rigid character classes, just general specializations by the skills they practice -- doctor, mechanic, brute, things like that. Beyond that, they'd have personality and relationships with each other and outside the gang, similar to a household in The Sims. The television show Firefly has a group of diverse characters riding around in a beat up old ship having adventures, and gives an idea of the feel I'm going for here.

In addition to combat and personal dynamics, vehicles, a ship, or some other kind of mechanical "stuff" to manage and serve as a mobile home of sorts in your squad's adventures is important, complete with customizations, strap-on weapons, etc., and a home base of some sort, whether it be a cave or bunker or some kind of surface structure, even a building in a city. Regardless of what it is, to be customizable and designable relatively freely would be important, with inspirations here both from The Sims and Dwarf Fortress.

Ideally, I would like it to be such that fighting and acting like a gang or fighting unit rather than just a family or group of friends would be completely optional and unnecessary, with plenty of opportunities to either work on self-sufficiency by scratching out survival in the wilderness, similar to Dwarf Fortress, or to participate in civilization more directly by passing your trades as doctor, mechanic, and what have you, like the Sims.

Eventually, to be able to have a sort of permanent wilderness settlement grow into a small town like in Dwarf Fortress would be nice, whether because others are settling right nearby and working with your people as NPCs, or because your group grows bigger and bigger until you spend little time micromanaging them. The Sims would do all of this by simply letting you start a new family and having them move next to your old family and build a home next door. That kind of player-dominated development, with the computer maintaining your other characters in the same world when you aren't using them, is probably what I would settle on.

Essentially, it would have the world building of Dwarf Fortress, small scale and character interactions of The Sims, and the combat and squad management of X-Com, wrapped in a sort of space western or post-apocalyptic setting.

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Capntastic

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Re: Your dream game...
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2007, 04:55:00 am »

A game with DF style worldbuilding and physics, with Mount and Blade's gameplay, only expanded to allow for playing a crafter or noble or whatever.
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silentnight

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Re: Your dream game...
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2007, 04:27:00 pm »

well there is one game i would like, quite a few sound like they would be like it, but ALL i have seen are disappointing. it is a intergalactic RTS, where you start in a randomly generated universe, on a small planet that has just obtained deep space tech, you build up your planet, both on the surface, and in space, then start to explore the rest of the nearby planets, and colonize them. (all in 3d) when you are on a planet you can actually SEE the planet's surface. You can get the resourced you need from planets, asteroids, and nebulas. (after you have advanced enough to survive in one)build up a large space fleet, for exploration to new systems, combat, or even mining/colonizing operations; build extensive gate networks to link your intergalactic empire, and when you finally cross paths with other life, (hostile life) either pcs or npcs, you will need to defend the gates and colonies, send out massive assault fleets, consisting of scouts, fighters of numerous classes, wide assortments of bombers, gunships, missile frigates, long-range capships, and carriers holding drop-ships for planetary assaults, with everything from gunners and tanks, to all terrain spider assault bots, and artillery batteries.  :o oohhhh *drools like homer simpson when he hears the word donut*  :cool:
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