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[Mel_Vixen]

quote: People speak of the death sentence as though it were murder. If that is true, then I would gladly murder each and every one of these monsters. They had the privilege of being human, and they threw it aside.

Ha ha ha, why dont you step forth and kill your President for the Iraqwar then? Why dont you kill all the Tabacoindustrials? Theyr are many examples for murders in this world why dont you go out and Kill them? Why not Kagus?

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I see in the deathsentence three mayor flaws.

At first sometimes you have an innocent on the electric chair. Saving one innocent is more valueable as killing 1000 Murders i think.

Second is you cant kill somebody who has some form of disease. A big bunch of paedos etc has some sort of psychical illness. You cant punish them for theyr illness right? This poor people are to a grade innocent too because they suffer some sort of mulfanction in theyr brains.

Third is that with the deathsentence they could run away from the real penalty. there is no more punishment then being for 50 Years in 3x3 Cell seeing the faces of your victims every night, knowing that you done something horrible. On the other hand you lie to yourself by easaly saying "His/her doing isnt our Fault. It wasnt the fault of the Community only his! We are so sweet innocent like lamps! Hes the Wolf somebody has to kill him.". Shit every Raper, Murderer, thief and what o ever was made by its surroundings. The fault lies not entirely in the hands of the rapers etc. it lies also in the hands of the neighbourhood which hadnt noticed the signatures of a hard beating ("because we are a good neighbourhood this sort of things does not happen here" is brillant excuse.)or in the hands of a Mother which says nothing about her husband raping theyr son which becomes a raper later by himself. By setting someone on the Deathrow you denie that horrible things happen and you denie that the current form of the community and culture has some very big blind spots and failures because you love your white west.

4. For all christians out theyr (i dont believe in God so i dont count this point): Your Holy bible which you claim as your guide book proklametes in the second Book of  Moses chapter 20 ("The revelation of the holy 10 commandments"):
"Thou shalt not kill" as a general commandment which means literally "You shall not kill" and not "You shall not kill anyone who had done nothing.".

[ June 10, 2008: Message edited by: Heph ]

[Cthulhu]

I'm a Christian, and I'm sickened by how bloodthirsty(and hypocritical) many of them are.  Every time I see a Christian say something along the lines of "I'm gonna laugh when you're burning in Hell"(and you'd be surprised how many times I see things like that) I die a little inside.  Even worse is how they're against abortion.  Apparently a mother can't kill a baby, but a judge can kill a supposed criminal.  Personally, I'm against both.  Like I said before, bad things happen when we try to decide who's human and who's not(Slavery, abortion, the Holocaust, eugenics, although I suppose the latter two go hand in hand).

[Helmaroc]

I am a Christian as well, and in my opinion abortion is different from killing an innocent suspect, the baby is denied a life, the suspect loses his life. The baby cannot protect itself, it just is denied and lost. Think how many brilliant people that could have been lost by abortion? Every soul is different, I think they should be able to find another way. I know that sometimes it's the only choice, and I am not angry at anyone who had to give up the child due to no one being physically able to care for it or for health reasons, but a lot of times the child could have been given a life.

[Kagus]

1) If an innocent is given the death penalty, that is a failure in their judging.  The punishment has nothing to do with it.

2) Illness is to be treated and should at least have an attempt made at curing it.  However, there are some cases that cannot be cured.  What do you do with them?  Release them?  Let them rot away in prison?

3) There are murderers who are not haunted by the faces of the dead.  No regret, no torment, no remorse.  There are indeed some people who were made monsters by their surroundings, but then there are those who were born damned.  All the love, compassion and justice in the world could do nothing to prevent what they will inevitably become.  You can inflict your own ideas of punishment upon them, at whatever cost they may come, or you can remove them.

EDIT:  And don't get me started on abortion.

[ June 10, 2008: Message edited by: Kagus ]

[Helmaroc]

One of the two main reasons this forum is so amazing is the utter freedom and respect.

1. Political and religious topics are welcome, as long as they are respectful and don't turn into biased flame wars.
2. Most everyone here is respectful.

[Kagus]

Yeah...  Unfortunately, political and religious discussions are doomed to deteriorate into mindless attacks, due to their very nature.

 That and music preferences.

[Cthulhu]

On illness, there have been several shows about pedophile traps, where a cop pretends to be a twelve year old girl and lures the pedophile to a house with cops.  If you watch, the pedophiles see cops dragging people out of the building but walk in anyway.  They want to be caught, they want to stop.

If an innocent is given the death penalty, that person is killed for someone else's crime.  That's unacceptable.  Their life is completely destroyed, and then   taken by force.  They can't do anything about it, and the real killer goes free.  

Like Heph said, send them to a foreign prison for less money, use them to research curative methods(A horrorshow idea, my droog!), there are ways to make them useful rather than just getting rid of them.

[Mel_Vixen]

Why not get started on Aboration Kagus? Its a grate way to get rid of all that from the beginning doomed souls! Let us look in theyr genetic Code! Let us find the genes who make a avarage person an fucking murderer! Let US CLEAN THE WORLD! This would be the best way wouldnt it. If they are judged and killed before theyr own birth so they could not kill anyone. *<- many barrels of sarcasm*

This is bullshit Kagus noone can be born as doomed destined to crime and Murder. At the end everybody you send willingly on the electric chair or an poisen injection is still something what we call human. If a Murderer dont suffers from his victims then from boredom. We "normal" people need something to remind us that  our town our country or our planet is not Perfect or some sort of "Paradise".

Well on the Topic of Deathpenalty i can get very angry and sometimes im Bullying or just flaming please excuse me if i had harmed you in any form.

[ June 10, 2008: Message edited by: Heph ]

[Helmaroc]

Everyone has a soul, and some people are darker than others, but no one can be born evil unless they have a mental affliction. It is all about how they are raised and what they are exposed to during childhood that shapes them as they grow up.

[Kagus]

quote:Originally posted by Cthulhu:
<STRONG>, where a cop pretends to be a twelve year old girl and lures the pedophile to a house with cops. </STRONG>

I'm sorry, but that image was too good to pass up...  I can just see the stereotypical donut-eater with a blond wig  braided into pigtails and affecting a high, girlish voice.

And as for an innocent getting the death penalty, is a life sentence with zero chance of parole any better?  It's still a problem with justice, however.  Not the punishment.

PRE-POST EDIT:  Just saw Heph's post from the little view window, and thought I might as well say something.

You really don't think it's possible for someone to be born predisposed to murder?  And how the HELL is sentencing someone to years of *boredom* a fitting punishment for taking another's life?

[Mel_Vixen]

quote: ... but then there are those who were born damned. [added after edit:] All the love, compassion and justice in the world could do nothing to prevent what they will inevitably become. You can inflict your own ideas of punishment upon them, at whatever cost they may come, or you can remove them.

Arent this your Words Kagus? Yes they are and i made a Screenshot so you cant let them vanish.

edit: Boredome would be a the false penalty and as i said before this subjects should do something for Public service for example by paving roads through the middle of nowhere.

What if someone brings you before a court which sets you on the deathrow and you know that you innocent what would you do? Would you walk by free will in the public slaughterroom because no one believes you?

[ June 10, 2008: Message edited by: Heph ]

[Cthulhu]

[DEVIL'S ADVOCATE]There are congenital psychological illnesses that make people predisposed to violent crime.[/DEVIL'S ADVOCATE]

If they have their entire lifetime in jail, there's enough time for the evidence to turn up to prove their innocence.  It's not a good chance, but the person's life is at stake.

I agree with Heph on the abortion thing.  Eugenics and (Most likely violent or traumatic) social engineering is the only way we'll be able to stop violent crime. Do the ends really justify the means here?

[Wooty]

I'm pretty sure its "Thou shalt not murder" rather than kill. Jesus says murder anyway, and it makes more sense.

[Cthulhu]

It really doesn't make sense.  Jesus' grace is infinite, and anyone can be forgiven for anything(Except blasphemy against the holy spirit, but that one doesn't come up often), if they truly want to change, and ask to be forgiven.  Then so-called Christians take from them their chance to ask forgiveness by killing them.

[Kagus]

No, not really.  For as long as there are thinking individuals on the planet, there will be some degree of conflict.  That's just the price we pay.  How we deal with the ones that crop up is another matter.

And I'm afraid I lost something in the translation with Heph...  I don't intend to take those words back, what point are you arguing exactly?  You said that it is impossible for someone to be born predisposed to murder or other grievous acts after I said they are, then I questioned as to whether or not you actually believe that, and then you quote my words on how some are irredeemable...  I'm confused.  Oh, and use the PNG extenstion so the picture doesn't get warped.

YET ANOTHER PRE-POST EDIT:  Wow, this is a busy thread.  Anyways, the bible is indeed rather contradictory...  But the wording is "thou shalt not kill", isn't it?  Unless this is another interpretation, I thought those words were pretty specific (or general, depending on how you look at it.  Hell, now I'm confusing myself).

POST-POST EDIT:  Okay, now I'm really baffled...  What exactly is Heph saying about abortion?

[ June 10, 2008: Message edited by: Kagus ]