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Author Topic: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?  (Read 2616 times)

bigcalm

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The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« on: March 27, 2015, 08:02:58 am »

We have a lot of tallow produced by the meat industry and currently the only use is soap.

Can we make some candles instead?  Candles can of course also be made from wax.

These candles, placed in candlesticks (or sconces or candelabra or chambersticks - made of rock, metal, clay or glass) around the base would help alleviate cave-adaptation and provide positive thoughts to dwarves who see nicely designed light-fittings.

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Kait

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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2015, 09:33:06 am »

Ok for the positive thought, but why it would help alleviate cave-adaptation ? If you stay five years with only the light of a candle, the return to the sunlight will be the same as with no candle.

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bigcalm

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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2015, 10:48:10 am »

I've always imagined that the reason dwarves become nauseous in sunlight after spending long periods underground is that when they see light again, their senses overload completely (hence the dizziness as well).  Having access to some light underground all the time should alleviate this, at least partially.
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Naryar

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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2015, 02:17:44 pm »

Yeah, a candle has nothing to do with the sun.

Also dwarves see perfectly in the dark. So candles or lightning ? Not really, unless we are talking trade depot.

SixOfSpades

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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2015, 03:46:51 pm »

Candles (both wax & tallow), lamps, and the like will almost certinaly be implemented in the Lighting arc, but not before. As for dwarves' darkvision, I expect they will still have it, but they WILL need some source of illumination in order to see fine details. So a dwarf in pitch blackness can move around & even fight, but can't be pleased by a well-crafted statue, even if it's right in front of him.

On another note, a candlestick-maker is a really stupid trade. How many candlesticks could any one town possibly need, and how could the demand for them sustain a craftsman for his entire career? It's not like they wear out.
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Niddhoger

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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2015, 06:42:27 pm »

Just have the whole thing be done at a craftsdorf's workshop by a waxworker.  Tallow candles too for simplicity as we don't need an entire profession just for one subset of crafting a single item... I don't imagine a wax and tallow candle being too different to make either.  The bonus is that it makes wax crafting and bees slightly less useless.
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SixOfSpades

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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2015, 07:24:40 pm »

. . . we don't need an entire profession just for one subset of crafting a single item . . .
Tallow lamps, oil lamps, torches, mining helmets, lanterns, and (once the Magic arc allows dwarves to use gemstones as magical reagents) gem lanterns as well.

Quote
The bonus is that it makes wax crafting and bees slightly less useless.
True. I haven't kept bees in years, but the next time I do, I imagine the first thing I'll do is try to pit an entire hive full of them down onto an already-pitted goblin, just to see what happens.
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Niddhoger

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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2015, 10:22:11 pm »

The OP was talking about candlestick makers specifically... not a generally all around "light source dorf."  In fact, the list you provided wouldn't be one profession anyway.  Torches, candles, and oil lamps would all require different materials.
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Deboche

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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2015, 06:58:18 am »

On another note, a candlestick-maker is a really stupid trade. How many candlesticks could any one town possibly need, and how could the demand for them sustain a craftsman for his entire career? It's not like they wear out.
No, it's not. Candles are always in high demand and they were a luxury item in medieval times. How many candlesticks can one town possibly need? One per household until it runs out, one per room and at least one per corridor in a manor or castle. Candles can also be used for religious purposes.

As for dwarves seeing in the dark, it's just not possible. Seeing in the dark requires at least some light and the depths dwarves live in have no light at all. It could be fixed by having fires everywhere - which would also keep the temperature up - but at least the miners digging in narrow tunnels in the depths of the fortress could benefit from candles.

Anyway, it's planned:
Core55, LIGHTING, (Future): This is essentially the old lighting dev item, upgraded, since it's important that proper lighting, vision, torches, etc. are recognized. The most necessary parts are making vision depending on the lighting of the location in question rather than where you are standing and adding some means of producing light (torches, candles, etc). Related to Req96.

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_single.html
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orbcontrolled

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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2015, 11:12:28 am »

snip
snip
You're both using different definitions of the word "candlestick". Wikipedia says that Deboche's definition is correct: The candlestick is the thing that holds the candles (The "history" section mentions it being a common error). No Google results for how they stayed in business once everyone had some candlesticks, although there are also plenty of modern day businesses that should have run out of customers long ago but somehow haven't, so who knows.

For those interested; We have the Rendermax plugin floating around which currently gives the appearance of lighting in DF, although I don't think it affects gameplay. The Masterwork mod makes good use of it.


« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 11:14:02 am by orbcontrolled »
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Vattic

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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2015, 12:05:28 pm »

orbcontrolled: Think you got the names mixed up there.

You will also find pages of suggestions for candles if you search this board.
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Deboche

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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2015, 07:13:00 pm »

My bad. Candlestick maker really is a crappy job, I doubt it ever existed as such.
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Batgirl1

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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2015, 11:14:55 pm »

Regarding a candlestick maker job: if we're talking about the candles themselves, then I'd assume they'd melt over time with use, in which case you need new ones, in which case a candle maker is at least as valuable as a soap maker.  As for the thing that holds the candles, well, that obviously falls under [material]-crafting.  The OP seems like a nice idea that could be added in as described in before Toady officially gets to the lighting arc, but it'll probably be saved until that arc, anyway.
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kontako

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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2015, 05:01:16 am »

Candles burn out rather quickly, I'd say only a few hours at maximum, meaning a single candlestick would use several candles a day.
I can't imagine how much tallow one would use up to feed the constant demand for light as a day in fortress time passes rather quickly.

Candlesticks shouldn't be buildable, in my opinion. Rather a dwarf needing light would carry a lit candle around with them, and place them to light a room (place them as an item, not 'construct' them) - as it would be IRL. Continuing on this I would think a single slab of tallow to produce something in the vicinity of 50 candles, simply to feed the demand.
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Insanegame27

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Re: The butcher, the baker, the... candlestickmaker ?
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2015, 06:49:02 am »

We have a lot of tallow produced by the meat industry and currently the only use is soap.

you are no dwarf until you taste a -tallow roast-
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