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Author Topic: Do the SHUN and EXILE ethics tokens work?  (Read 5531 times)

NCommander

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Re: Do the SHUN and EXILE ethics tokens work?
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2015, 07:05:27 am »

[ETHIC:OATH_BREAKING:REQUIRED] is going to be interesting.  It could be a self-contained loyalty cascade.

I believe this controls what happens when a mandate is failed (if the justice system kicks to life or not)
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Dirst

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Re: Do the SHUN and EXILE ethics tokens work?
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2015, 01:35:52 pm »

[ETHIC:OATH_BREAKING:REQUIRED] is going to be interesting.  It could be a self-contained loyalty cascade.

I believe this controls what happens when a mandate is failed (if the justice system kicks to life or not)
Was just picturing what the AI would do with "I promise that I will not keep any promise including this one."  You are probably right that it just removes the mandate violation crime, but it'd be fun if the effect was more subtle: no citizen will perform a crafting task that would happen to fulfill a mandate.

"Oh great, the Baron mandated socks.  Tradition demands that I now not make any socks for as long as he lives, but mine are wearing thin.  I wonder if the Baron would like to take a tour of the Lever Room™?"
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Eldin00

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Re: Do the SHUN and EXILE ethics tokens work?
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2015, 12:17:35 am »

So I ran a fort with all of the [KILL_{something}] ethics set to [PUNISH_CAPITAL]. So far, I haven't gotten any sieges so I can't say whether it will work for [KILL_ENEMY], but my dwarves happily kill animals, chop down trees, and kill elven traders/diplomats, without any crimes showing up in the justice screen or anyone getting a visit from the hammerer.

The only observed effect in fortress mode of setting [ETHIC:KILL_PLANT] or [ETHIC:KILL_ANIMAL] to [PUNISH_CAPITAL] is that if I offer any items containing leather or wood to the dwarven caravan, they get pissy and leave, refusing to trade any more until next visit. The caravans still bring leather, meat, and wooden items for trade. And my hunters still hunt, butchers still slaughter, and woodcutters still cut trees.

When the elven traders came, I recruited an unskilled dwarf into the militia and had him attack an elven trader. Once the fight started I disbanded the squad, and my civilians dogpiled the elf. Eventually one of my miners got a killing shot. The dwarves happily went about the business afterward, and no crime was registered as having been committed.
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vjmdhzgr

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Re: Do the SHUN and EXILE ethics tokens work?
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2015, 12:43:57 am »

So I ran a fort with all of the [KILL_{something}] ethics set to [PUNISH_CAPITAL]. So far, I haven't gotten any sieges so I can't say whether it will work for [KILL_ENEMY], but my dwarves happily kill animals, chop down trees, and kill elven traders/diplomats, without any crimes showing up in the justice screen or anyone getting a visit from the hammerer.

The only observed effect in fortress mode of setting [ETHIC:KILL_PLANT] or [ETHIC:KILL_ANIMAL] to [PUNISH_CAPITAL] is that if I offer any items containing leather or wood to the dwarven caravan, they get pissy and leave, refusing to trade any more until next visit. The caravans still bring leather, meat, and wooden items for trade. And my hunters still hunt, butchers still slaughter, and woodcutters still cut trees.

When the elven traders came, I recruited an unskilled dwarf into the militia and had him attack an elven trader. Once the fight started I disbanded the squad, and my civilians dogpiled the elf. Eventually one of my miners got a killing shot. The dwarves happily went about the business afterward, and no crime was registered as having been committed.
Well then that unfortunately leaves us with oath breaking as our only reliable way of getting crimes committed, which means we'll need to get all the way to having a noble to test a single token which is a minimum of one year (though one year is very unrealistic) and then another year for the mandate to actually be violated. I guess tomorrow I'll try out the titular exile token for oath breaking and try to figure out how to do a mandate breaking speed run.
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NCommander

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Re: Do the SHUN and EXILE ethics tokens work?
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2015, 05:58:48 am »

If I remember correctly from the ethics tokens, the following ones are attached to justice

Violation of Production Order and Violation of Export Prohibition are controlled by Oath Breaking
Violation of Job Order can't trigger under current circumstances (it might be possible to get it to fire via DFhack)
Conspiracy to Slow Labor - not implemented anymore
Disorderly Conduct - Controlled by ASSAULT ethic
Building destruction/Vandalism - Controlled by the VANDALISM token

SLAVERY can cause interesting historical figures to become part of your society. I'm believe the game excludes non-dwarves from immigration, but you might end up with non-dwarf liason or king.

Everything else only affects adventurer mode, or worldgen
KILL_ANIMAL / KILL_PLANT affect trade (KILL_ANIMAL used to be on elves until the first 3D releases)


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Quote from: TheFlame52
Fucking hell man, you aren't just getting the short end of the stick, you're being beaten with it.
Quote from: NRDL
Is your plan really to flush water into hell, and have the CARP marines fight them without threat of flame or disease?  If so, you are awesome, and one of the greatest DF military visionaries I've seen yet ( not that I've seen that many, or any, for that matter )

Eldin00

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Re: Do the SHUN and EXILE ethics tokens work?
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2015, 11:03:23 am »

Everything NCommander said fits with what I'd heard before. But I hadn't found any posts actually verifying (either through testing in game or by digging around in memory/binary files) that none of the other tokens had any effect on the justice system in current (.40.xx) versions. So yeah, the test confirmed that things worked how I expected, rather than how I hoped.
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vjmdhzgr

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Re: Do the SHUN and EXILE ethics tokens work?
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2015, 05:10:39 pm »

Sorry, I forgot to actually do the tests when I said I would. I've been pretty busy, but I'll try to work on them soon.
EDIT:I got some serious life stuff going on right now, so I probably won't be able to work on this for a while. I'll still update the OP with new information anybody finds.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 05:54:51 pm by vjmdhzgr »
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Its a feature. Impregnating booze is a planned tech tree for dwarves and this is a sneak peek at it.
Unless you're past reproductive age. Then you're pretty much an extension of your kids' genitalia
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