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Author Topic: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.  (Read 58095 times)

Howando

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Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
« Reply #435 on: December 30, 2014, 05:02:14 pm »

Writing descriptions can be tricky.  It's best when you can summon up the essence of the item in a few words.  "This spear is 6 feet long, the wooden shaft ends in a steel tip with an evil looking barb.  It feels well balanced and perfect for throwing."  Apart from some stats and specials, what more is needed?  But for items that are unique or have lore associated with them, you might want a couple of paragraphs to get across the story and the essence of it, because that's the whole point of the game is that kind of atmosphere.

You can also utilise broader class descriptions to produce shorter item descriptions.  If all magical staves in your world are huge ornate wonders covered in gruesome carvings topped by a huge glowing orb, you can just explain that is the case in the relevant section and then your item descriptions can just highlight the detail, "The figures carved on this staff appear to be engaged in a gleeful orgy of fire and death.  When you raise it above your head the dark red orb is filled with an intense light."  If you have to break the mould a little and maybe one staff is smooth or made of twisted metal or the knob is a small amethyst, you can compare it to the standard type to draw on that overall impression still, and highlight what is interesting.
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MaximumZero

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Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
« Reply #436 on: May 08, 2015, 09:50:47 am »

Well, guys, this is it. I'm necromancing the thread one more time for a particular cause. I've been largely unable to work on the game for quite some time due to highly unstable work/living conditions, and now I'm drowning in debt. I'm seriously considering setting up a GoFundMe page or Kickstarter or Indiegogo or something, but I'm not sure what the reaction to said page would be, or even if it's worth doing.

This damned game should be finished by now. It should have been finished years ago. I spend all my free time trying to relax from work or being stressed about living arrangements, or freelancing, or being dragged into court/lawyers' offices/what have you by my ex wife. I'm emotionally drained, mentally petered out, and physically exhausted. I'm frustrated that I've taken so long to even get to the point that I have, and it feels like the finish line will never be crossed at this pace.

On the flip side, I'm also extraordinarily nervous about putting my work out into the public arena. Every word I've ever put to page has been shredded by people I used to hold very dear, and every time I open the file to work on it, I hear nothing but the sound of being berated over and over again for being worthless and how I could be doing something better with my time and how there's no point to doing this. I spent years hearing this, and as you can imagine, it's eroded my confidence to nothing.

So, I ask you, B12ers who are potentially interested in my game, what say you? I'm not asking you directly for money, and never would, but should I do the crowdfunding thing? Is there enough potential? Do I have enough material? Am I just being too self-doubting?
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EagleV

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Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
« Reply #437 on: May 08, 2015, 02:43:50 pm »

Well, first of all, that's sad to hear. From what little you can know about people on the other side of a forum, you sound like a great guy and I hope you get in a better situation soon.

Secondly, about your game.
I hear nothing but the sound of being berated over and over again for being worthless and how I could be doing something better with my time and how there's no point to doing this. I spent years hearing this, and as you can imagine, it's eroded my confidence to nothing.
It's your time. Even if you were wasting it, it'd be yours to waste, and you are not. You are working on something, creating something you and others (me, for one) believe in, and that is always worth doing. It's also worth doing well, and that costs time. I'm fairly certain people were telling Gygax was wasting time. Or Zuckerberg. Or any of the other Fathers Of Great Things. Of course, for every FOGT, there are many people that are less lucky, but even if this becomes a relatively unknown or niche game, it'll be great to have.

So, I ask you, B12ers who are potentially interested in my game, what say you? I'm not asking you directly for money, and never would, but should I do the crowdfunding thing? Is there enough potential? Do I have enough material? Am I just being too self-doubting?
I think you should. Of course, the amount of material you have to show is difficult to guess, and I don't know how much you're willing to show before completion - from what I remember, not too much. There is certainly potential, and I, for one, would be happy to send a little boost your way. Importantly, if your kickstarter fails, nothing is lost in terms of money: "If funding isn't successful, there are no fees." One bad thing I see happening is that if it should fail, it would be another blow to your morale, which is worth considering. Still, with the quality that I think your stuff will have, you could certainly be successfull in a well-planned kickstarter campaign.

As you might have guessed, people say I'm a bit naive. I'm also bad at explaining feely stuff. And I seem to use way too many clichés. But I hope you go on with this, one way or another, many other b12ers seem to think so too, and I think that's what you need to be reminded of.

As an afterthought, I'm sure you'll find reviewers aplenty on these forums if you need some feedback before you go public.
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Kadzar

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Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
« Reply #438 on: May 08, 2015, 10:12:27 pm »

I'll echo the first part of what EagleV said (or, at least, the parts before and after the first quote), but disagree with him on the idea of Kickstarter being a good idea. Because it's not. At least, not for your first time trying to publish something.

For one thing, you only have so long to try to sell your game. And in that time, you need to promote the hell out of it. I'm sure there are some people who approach Kickstarter with the philosophy of "if we build it, they will come", but I've never heard of anyone like that actually getting funded.

Also, and please don't take any offense to this, as far as the RPG industry/community/scene is concerned, you're basically nobody at this point. If you want anybody besides friends/family/a few morbidly curious strangers to invest in your game, you'll want a name involved that, at the very least, a few hundred people can recognize and trust. That, or celebrity endorsement. If you can't offer that, people are at least going to want a very good demonstration of what they're paying for, if they don't have a sample of anyone's previous work to go by or somebody they know to tell them it's good.

And even if you do manage to get funded, there are all kinds of potential pitfalls in the process of fulfillment. For one thing, you better damn well account for any potential costs you'll accrue in trying to get people's orders to them, and then be prepared for all kinds of hidden costs you never even considered to sneak up and screw you in the bum. And unless whatever publisher you plan to use is willing to handle shipping for you, consider just how much time it would take you to personally handle the shipping orders of several hundred backers (Really, if you plan to ship anything yourself, it should probably only be for Limited tiers).


Really, as someone new to the RPG publishing scene, I'd recommend going the Print-On-Demand/PDF distribution route (actually, I'd even encourage industry professionals to at least include it in their repertoire, and most of them actually do). Lulu and DriveThruRPG are the two that I can think of most readily, and, unless I'm misunderstanding something, there aren't fees to be paid so much as just that they take a cut of each sale, and you don't have to reach some arbitrary goal to actually make money (there's probably a minimum amount of money you need to make before they cut you a check, but it should be much less than you'd ask for a Kickstarter).

Alright, so looking into it, they do charge some minor fees, but that's only to cover the cost of book printing or, in Lulu's case, a very minor one to cover the cost of PDF hosting. After aforementioned fees, Lulu takes 10% for PDFs and 20% for books, while DriveThruRPG takes 30-35% for either, depending on whether or not you are an exclusive partner with them (exclusivity only applies to distributing digital formats, like PDFs and such).

So so far, Lulu looks like it's winning by pure numbers, but don't count DriveThruRPG out yet. While Lulu is just generally a PDF/print-on-demand site, DTRPG is a devoted RPG store, with categorization by things like genre and rule system, and boasting a wide selection of titles, including some from such famous publishers as Fantasy Flight Games, White Wolf, and even freaking Wizards of the Coast, just to name a few (basically, pretty much everyone who doesn't already have their own PDF store). So it's the kind of place where you're more likely to be seen by your target demographic, whereas on Lulu, as best I can tell, if you're look for RPGs you have to search through the Games section, which also contains things like guides to poker and chess, so it's less than ideal on the user end.

So I'd probably recommend going for both Lulu and DriveThruRPG, since any money you leave on the table by going for the latter is likely made up for by greater exposure. I might check into what it takes to terminate your agreement with them, just in case you feel it's not working out (in either case), and possibly look into what the Exclusive account for DTRPG entails (they mention "enhanced title rotation" and "bonus on-site promotion", but I think getting more information about that would require contacting them directly, which probably isn't a bad thing to do before you get started.

In addition to all this, I'd recommend promoting your game and yourself on other sites (probably RPG-related, though, who knows, some cooking forums might be really interested in what you have to offer). I think you know enough about salesmanship to do this with proper tack, so the last piece of advice I'm going to offer is maybe have a demo version of your product you can direct people to so they can get an idea of what it's like before they put down money. It's something that helps if you don't have a lot of hype in place already.

Alright, that's it from me. Get out there and make your game! (Or in there. You can probably just make your game where you are right now.)
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Bauglir

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Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
« Reply #439 on: May 08, 2015, 10:19:48 pm »

If you do set up something with one of those sites Kadzar mentioned, I will buy a copy. Worth a couple dozen dollars just to satisfy my curiosity on what you've been cooking all this time, and getting a spiffy game out of it besides would be marvelous gravy. Can't speak to how well the market at large would fly for you, but if you're able to wrangle the time and energy to put it together I think it may not be a bad scheme.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
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MaximumZero

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Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
« Reply #440 on: May 08, 2015, 10:56:40 pm »

Thanks for all the feedback, guys. I really appreciate it. Many warm fuzzies were had this day.

Also:
Also, and please don't take any offense to this, as far as the RPG industry/community/scene is concerned, you're basically nobody at this point.
Yeah, no, I totally get that. I'm not terribly marketable as a brand because no one knows who I am and they won't until I have a major product under my belt. On point. That's one of the reasons I was asking if it was even a good idea to use crowdfunding.

Worth a couple dozen dollars just to satisfy my curiosity on what you've been cooking all this time, and getting a spiffy game out of it besides would be marvelous gravy.
A couple dozen? I guess if I do this I actually have to think about reasonable price points, eh? (I was thinking less than $20, but that may not be feasable with the aforementioned self-publishing. I was actually looking at Ookoodook as one of my primary markets, alongside things like Order of the Stick books. As well as Amazon/Kindle, B&N/Nook, other mobile media marketplaces, etc. I'm not expecting to sell a ton of physical copies, because a) they're expensive to produce, and b) digital is a lot easier to carry. Then again, people like hardcover books. I sure as hell do. So many options. -.-

Anyway, I'm going to get writing while I watch the baseball game. This should be a nightly ritual for me. I move at the end of the month, so we'll see
what kind of progress has been made at that point and go from there. I'm excited again, you guys. This is the first time in a long time.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 11:35:22 pm by MaximumZero »
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Holy crap, why did I not start watching One Punch Man earlier? This is the best thing.
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Bauglir

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Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
« Reply #441 on: May 08, 2015, 11:26:33 pm »

For now, though, I'll see if I
That's weird, I didn't see you mention Candlejack. Anyway, I tend to be a bit more willing to shell out for stuff like this, since I do it rarely; a lower price point surely won't hurt, especially if it's digital. Dunno if those sites support pay-what-you-want, but it might be a good i-
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

MaximumZero

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Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
« Reply #442 on: May 08, 2015, 11:37:19 pm »

Heh. This is what I get for hitting post after midnight.
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Holy crap, why did I not start watching One Punch Man earlier? This is the best thing.
probably figured an autobiography wouldn't be interesting

SalmonGod

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Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
« Reply #443 on: May 09, 2015, 12:06:30 am »

I also don't see crowdfunding working out very well.

But whatever you do, just don't give up.  Life happens and ideas get put on hold.  So long as you return to them when you can, there's nothing wasted.  If you publish something, I'll probably buy it.  Hope your situation improves.  I saw you mention something elsewhere of a potential major promotion?  Let's get those promotions together!  Interviewing for mine probably next week.
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MaximumZero

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Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
« Reply #444 on: May 09, 2015, 12:20:55 am »

Well, I've won three district-wide sales contests in a row, and I may be in the running to be recruited by a major company to run my own store. That would put my salary at at least triple what I make now, putting me squarely in the middle class for the first time in my life. That's not factoring in bonuses, whole-store commission, and benefits, which puts me somewhere between 3.5x and 6x what I make a year now.

Fingers crossed. It's a big jump, but I'm ready to take it.
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Holy crap, why did I not start watching One Punch Man earlier? This is the best thing.
probably figured an autobiography wouldn't be interesting

SalmonGod

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Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
« Reply #445 on: May 09, 2015, 12:36:36 am »

Mine isn't that big, but still pretty big.  I'm shooting for something in the range of a $18-23k increase in pay, which is like a 60% increase for me.  Will also put me pretty well in the middle class, and doing better than almost anyone I know IRL who isn't at least 10 years older than me.

Keep rocking the bread winning.  Neo Dreams will bloom in time.

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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

MaximumZero

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Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
« Reply #446 on: May 09, 2015, 12:41:34 am »

Yeah, I'm starting at a hypothetical $20k-ish/year. Middle class is a loooong way away for me.

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement. I need and appreciate every iota I can get. Nothing else could possibly help me as much right now. (Except cash, but lol.)
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Holy crap, why did I not start watching One Punch Man earlier? This is the best thing.
probably figured an autobiography wouldn't be interesting

MaximumZero

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Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
« Reply #447 on: May 12, 2015, 01:54:57 am »

I finished the chart containing all of the animals tonight. So, raw numbers (which I've always found harder than descriptions,) are done for 100 animals, 100 combatants, and 100 monsters, as well as 100 (base) weapons and 100 (base) pieces of armor, 35 metals, 13 types of cloth, 14 types of leather/hide, 19 types of stone, 21 types of wood, 13 types of glass/stoneware, 8 types of horn/antler, 11 types of fangs/teeth, 13 types of shell/scale, 11 types of claw, 10 types of bone, 11 types of feather, and 10 types of fur/pelt.

If you can't find something to fight or craft, that's your own damn fault. I guess this means that the game will be sort-of-dungeon-crawl-able when I a)finish the "other" equipment (bedrolls, torches, professional tool kits, tents, rope, ye flask, rations, medicines, and various other miscellany,) and b) get all this shit put together in the same file. I was a lot closer to that point than I thought I was.

Edit: I did some writing and put down bits and pieces of the backstory of how the afterlife works. Note: the information here is in a very, very rough state and should be treated as such. Also, all of my worldbuilding is completely optional (just like in every other P&P game.) If you want to read it, have at it. I'm not sure how interesting it's going to be, though. Also, the formatting will definitely leave something to be desired, as copy&paste from word doesn't translate well to BBCode. I'm also fairly certain it repeats itself in places. I just needed to get it out of my head. There's a lot more floating around in there (a lot more!) I ran out of time to write.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 03:42:47 am by MaximumZero »
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Holy crap, why did I not start watching One Punch Man earlier? This is the best thing.
probably figured an autobiography wouldn't be interesting

MaximumZero

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Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
« Reply #448 on: May 15, 2015, 11:41:14 pm »

Currently working on finally solidifying everything into one single document. It's going pretty slowly, but it's going.
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Holy crap, why did I not start watching One Punch Man earlier? This is the best thing.
probably figured an autobiography wouldn't be interesting

Pencil_Art

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Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
« Reply #449 on: May 16, 2015, 03:19:27 am »

PTW. Sounds amazing, and keep it up.
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