Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5

Author Topic: Ulitmate Marksdwarf Guide - Get Them Training Much More Frequently  (Read 39014 times)

MehMuffin

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ulitmate Marksdwarf Guide - Get Them *CONSTANTLY* Training
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2015, 12:25:50 pm »

Great, now they're doing fine. It did turn out to be an equipment problem, I didn't realize they'd go to (No Activity) without the right equipment instead of at least generating a cancellation or something. Thanks!
Logged

skyte100

  • Bay Watcher
  • God of Ichor
    • View Profile
Re: Ulitmate Marksdwarf Guide - Get Them *CONSTANTLY* Training
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2015, 12:29:44 pm »

Great, now they're doing fine. It did turn out to be an equipment problem, I didn't realize they'd go to (No Activity) without the right equipment instead of at least generating a cancellation or something. Thanks!
They probably dont generate a cancellation because without the equipment, it was never a valid option.
Logged

Ravendarksky

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • DFMon.exe - Get rid of DF SPAM
Re: Ulitmate Marksdwarf Guide - Get Them *CONSTANTLY* Training
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2015, 02:32:19 pm »

Just goes to show you can always learn something! I've never realised you could have more than one order per month... I've basically been only setting one squad member to train all these years <_>.

Anyway thanks very Much! I'd also like to make a suggestion. You should expand your post to explain that the orders need to be set for each squad (more than 3 isn't obvious). I also suggest highlighting the link between alert states and orders (it isn't obvious that the orders only relate to the active/training alert). Also its totally worth renaming your order to train - 1 for marks dwafs and train - 2 for melee so its more obvious that youve fixed it for those squads.

Sorry for the formatting! Typed all this on my phone.
Logged

NCommander

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dwarven Military Master
    • View Profile
    • SoylentNews
Re: Ulitmate Marksdwarf Guide - Get Them *CONSTANTLY* Training
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2015, 03:24:45 pm »

Just goes to show you can always learn something! I've never realised you could have more than one order per month... I've basically been only setting one squad member to train all these years <_>.

Anyway thanks very Much! I'd also like to make a suggestion. You should expand your post to explain that the orders need to be set for each squad (more than 3 isn't obvious). I also suggest highlighting the link between alert states and orders (it isn't obvious that the orders only relate to the active/training alert). Also its totally worth renaming your order to train - 1 for marks dwafs and train - 2 for melee so its more obvious that youve fixed it for those squads.

Sorry for the formatting! Typed all this on my phone.

I never even thought about renaming the order but that's actually a really good idea. THe schedule screen is really complicated on a good day though, like setting schedules across multiple alerts ..
Logged
Quote from: TheFlame52
Fucking hell man, you aren't just getting the short end of the stick, you're being beaten with it.
Quote from: NRDL
Is your plan really to flush water into hell, and have the CARP marines fight them without threat of flame or disease?  If so, you are awesome, and one of the greatest DF military visionaries I've seen yet ( not that I've seen that many, or any, for that matter )

TheFlame52

  • Bay Watcher
  • Master of the randomly generated
    • View Profile
Re: Ulitmate Marksdwarf Guide - Get Them Training Much More Frequently
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2015, 03:56:07 pm »

Your sig, this... You might just be the greatest dwarven military commander of all time. I'll be sure to give you a good place in Murdermachines' ending.

NCommander

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dwarven Military Master
    • View Profile
    • SoylentNews
Re: Ulitmate Marksdwarf Guide - Get Them *CONSTANTLY* Training
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2015, 04:30:56 pm »

I noticed you have them in leather, is it a problem to have them in metal armor?  I'm training mine up as legendary hammerdwarves as well for when they inevitably get into melee, but I can't seem to get then into steel.

I've run into the same issue, and haven't found a way to fix it (I'm *just* starting to ramp up metal production in this fort, so it will be awhile before I have full armor sets). I always have dwarves train in leather; having them in iron and steel without armor user slows them down so much they become walking targets and thus actually makes them weaker.

My guess here is because the quiver goes on "Upper Body", its conflicting with one of the upper body metal slots; my guess breastplates.That or the idiots are equipping themselves wrong. I generally use fortications and patrol routes with marksdwarves to prevent them from getting in melee in the first place since crossbows suck as melee weapons.

Your sig, this... You might just be the greatest dwarven military commander of all time. I'll be sure to give you a good place in Murdermachines' ending.

I just sent you a PM with details of what my dwarf did in Deathgate, and what I was planning to do with her story before RL got in the way.

---

On another note, I just realized this method might fix ranged dwarves charging into combat. They won't increase their discpline very high with this method, and that means they are MUCH more likely to avoid rushing in once their bolts are discharged. Once they break line of sight with an enemy, they'll go get bolts to reload.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 04:56:43 pm by NCommander »
Logged
Quote from: TheFlame52
Fucking hell man, you aren't just getting the short end of the stick, you're being beaten with it.
Quote from: NRDL
Is your plan really to flush water into hell, and have the CARP marines fight them without threat of flame or disease?  If so, you are awesome, and one of the greatest DF military visionaries I've seen yet ( not that I've seen that many, or any, for that matter )

Romegypt

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ulitmate Marksdwarf Guide - Get Them Training Much More Frequently
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2015, 05:56:41 pm »

YES! Finally, my marksdwarves train and shoot instead of prodding at enemies!
THANK YOU!
Logged

RoaryStar

  • Bay Watcher
  • Skilled Programmer
    • View Profile
Re: Ulitmate Marksdwarf Guide - Get Them *CONSTANTLY* Training
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2015, 06:21:17 pm »

I noticed you have them in leather, is it a problem to have them in metal armor?  I'm training mine up as legendary hammerdwarves as well for when they inevitably get into melee, but I can't seem to get then into steel.
I've run into the same issue, and haven't found a way to fix it (I'm *just* starting to ramp up metal production in this fort, so it will be awhile before I have full armor sets). I always have dwarves train in leather; having them in iron and steel without armor user slows them down so much they become walking targets and thus actually makes them weaker.

My guess here is because the quiver goes on "Upper Body", its conflicting with one of the upper body metal slots; my guess breastplates.That or the idiots are equipping themselves wrong. I generally use fortications and patrol routes with marksdwarves to prevent them from getting in melee in the first place since crossbows suck as melee weapons.

This might be because of the way armor is equipped; quivers are probably a [COVER] item. That means that they have to take off the quiver first, then the leather armor, then put on the metal armor, and then put the quiver back on. Iirc normal AI won't do this.
Logged

NCommander

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dwarven Military Master
    • View Profile
    • SoylentNews
Re: Ulitmate Marksdwarf Guide - Get Them *CONSTANTLY* Training
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2015, 06:24:34 pm »

I noticed you have them in leather, is it a problem to have them in metal armor?  I'm training mine up as legendary hammerdwarves as well for when they inevitably get into melee, but I can't seem to get then into steel.
I've run into the same issue, and haven't found a way to fix it (I'm *just* starting to ramp up metal production in this fort, so it will be awhile before I have full armor sets). I always have dwarves train in leather; having them in iron and steel without armor user slows them down so much they become walking targets and thus actually makes them weaker.

My guess here is because the quiver goes on "Upper Body", its conflicting with one of the upper body metal slots; my guess breastplates.That or the idiots are equipping themselves wrong. I generally use fortications and patrol routes with marksdwarves to prevent them from getting in melee in the first place since crossbows suck as melee weapons.

This might be because of the way armor is equipped; quivers are probably a [COVER] item. That means that they have to take off the quiver first, then the leather armor, then put on the metal armor, and then put the quiver back on. Iirc normal AI won't do this.

Untested, but should work, give them a uniform only consisting of the bow and a shield, and replaces clothes. Dwarves will strip down to nothing (and get a bad thought), then add the armor. I could probably write a DFHack tweak to fix this, or you could do it manually with forceequip.
Logged
Quote from: TheFlame52
Fucking hell man, you aren't just getting the short end of the stick, you're being beaten with it.
Quote from: NRDL
Is your plan really to flush water into hell, and have the CARP marines fight them without threat of flame or disease?  If so, you are awesome, and one of the greatest DF military visionaries I've seen yet ( not that I've seen that many, or any, for that matter )

skyte100

  • Bay Watcher
  • God of Ichor
    • View Profile
Re: Ulitmate Marksdwarf Guide - Get Them *CONSTANTLY* Training
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2015, 07:59:21 pm »

I noticed you have them in leather, is it a problem to have them in metal armor?  I'm training mine up as legendary hammerdwarves as well for when they inevitably get into melee, but I can't seem to get then into steel.
I've run into the same issue, and haven't found a way to fix it (I'm *just* starting to ramp up metal production in this fort, so it will be awhile before I have full armor sets). I always have dwarves train in leather; having them in iron and steel without armor user slows them down so much they become walking targets and thus actually makes them weaker.

My guess here is because the quiver goes on "Upper Body", its conflicting with one of the upper body metal slots; my guess breastplates.That or the idiots are equipping themselves wrong. I generally use fortications and patrol routes with marksdwarves to prevent them from getting in melee in the first place since crossbows suck as melee weapons.

This might be because of the way armor is equipped; quivers are probably a [COVER] item. That means that they have to take off the quiver first, then the leather armor, then put on the metal armor, and then put the quiver back on. Iirc normal AI won't do this.

Untested, but should work, give them a uniform only consisting of the bow and a shield, and replaces clothes. Dwarves will strip down to nothing (and get a bad thought), then add the armor. I could probably write a DFHack tweak to fix this, or you could do it manually with forceequip.
"Quiver and Backpack are also worn on upper body, counting towards layer permit size." Dunno if this is it. But whatever you have them wear needs to leave room for the quiver. If they wear to much, no quiver. Cannot for the life of me find the info on how much the quiver takes or the max size for it though.
Logged

NCommander

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dwarven Military Master
    • View Profile
    • SoylentNews
Re: Ulitmate Marksdwarf Guide - Get Them Training Much More Frequently
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2015, 09:51:43 pm »

I found a possible fix for this. Needs more testing. Remove the crossbow from the dwarf on the equip screen, and wait for them to put them away. Add the breastplate. Wait for them to equip. Add the bow. That should get them to put it on in the right order.
Logged
Quote from: TheFlame52
Fucking hell man, you aren't just getting the short end of the stick, you're being beaten with it.
Quote from: NRDL
Is your plan really to flush water into hell, and have the CARP marines fight them without threat of flame or disease?  If so, you are awesome, and one of the greatest DF military visionaries I've seen yet ( not that I've seen that many, or any, for that matter )

Gobbopathe

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ulitmate Marksdwarf Guide - Get Them *CONSTANTLY* Training
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2015, 03:53:52 am »

Just goes to show you can always learn something! I've never realised you could have more than one order per month... I've basically been only setting one squad member to train all these years <_>.

No until then you've set one squad member minimum to train. Which is not as bas as you said, but not as efficient as proposed by the OP.

By the way thanks for the guide, I learned exactly the same : didn't know we could set several orders the same month.
Just your link here does not redirect on the page you wanted I guess

Quote
Set a material preference if you want*, and set it so bolts are used for both training and combat. I generally have enough ore that it isn't hard to mass produce copper bolts. They will gum up if bolts for training and combat are different, here's the bug report: www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=post;board=11.0
Logged

Devin

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ulitmate Marksdwarf Guide - Get Them Training Much More Frequently
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2015, 11:50:26 am »

What about the problem of dwarves getting unhappy about being drafted for too long?  Should we insert some scheduled off-duty time, and if so how much?
Logged

Eldin00

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ulitmate Marksdwarf Guide - Get Them Training Much More Frequently
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2015, 12:12:41 pm »

What about the problem of dwarves getting unhappy about being drafted for too long?  Should we insert some scheduled off-duty time, and if so how much?

That was a bug which has been fixed in the current version. Training orders no longer count as 'active duty' for calculating whether dwarves were on duty long enough to create bad thoughts.
Logged

TheFlame52

  • Bay Watcher
  • Master of the randomly generated
    • View Profile
Re: Ulitmate Marksdwarf Guide - Get Them Training Much More Frequently
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2015, 03:40:59 pm »

Any idea on how to stop equipment mismatch cancellations? Even the marksdwarves that were never hunters do it.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5