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[LeoCean]

Spoiler: Damn that's long (click to show/hide)

Well, I guess that more or less solves the engraving issue for now. But you know what is turning out to be another major pain? ...Ground tiles.

To reiterate, for some things in TWBT you can only override them based on their ascii tile. This is the case for StoneWall and MineralWall, which give the graphics to all stone layers and veins in the game.

Code: [Select]

SOIL LAYER TILES (SoilWall)
Tile Material

176 Loam, Peat, Pelagic clay, Red sand, Sand (tan), Sandy clay loam, Sandy loam, Silty clay loam
177 Calcareous ooze, Clay loam, Loamy sand, Sandy clay, Siliceous ooze, Silt loam
178 Black sand, Clay, Fire clay, Silt, Silty clay, White sand, Yellow sand,

STONE LAYER TILES (StoneWall)
Tile Material

35 Basalt, Rock Salt, Sandstone
37 Siltstone, Slate
44 Claystone, Rhyolite
45 Phyllite, Quartzite
46 Dacite, Shale
61 Chert, Gneiss
96 Dolomite, Schist
176 Chalk, Diorite
177 Gabbro, Obsidian
178 Granite, Limestone, Marble
236 Andesite, Conglomerate
247 Mudstone

VEIN TILES (MineralWall)
Tile Material

15 Bituminous Coal
34 Calcite, Hornblende
35 Gypsum, Sandstone
37 Brimstone, Kimberlite, Marcasite, Microcline, Olivine, Orthoclase, Petrified wood, Pyrolusite, Realgar, Stibnite
42 Lignite, Pitchblende
43 Bauxite
44 Periclase
45 Cryolite, Orpiment, Satinspar
46 Ilmenite
59 Selenite
61 Chromite, Kaolinite, Sylvite
94 Alabaster
96 Alunite, Borax, Rutile
111 Graphite
118 Anhydrite, Mica
120 Saltpeter
124 Talc
156 Cinnabar, Cobalt
176 Jet
233 Puddingstone
247 Serpentine

ORE/GEM TILES (MineralWall)
Tile Material

15 All gems
37 Bismuthinite
94 Native aluminum
126 Magnetite
156 Adamantine, Cassiterite, Galena, Garnierite, Hematite, Horn silver, Limonite, Malachite, Native copper, Native gold, Native platinum, Native silver, Sphalerite, Tetrahedrite
The problem here is that there's little rhyme or reason as to which materials get which tile. I could try making graphics based on a material's real-world appearance, but then you've have materials like kaolinite and sylvite sharing a tile. I could break up the materials into their layers/worth like Phoebus does, but materials like chalk and diorite use the same ascii tile. I could try creating separate tiles for stones and veins, but many tiles are shared between the two.

So...At this point it looks like I'm gonna have to give in and edit the raws. Which would conflict with any mods that add stones, veins, ores, gems or soil (i.e. almost all of them) and create incompatibilities with existing saves. I could create installation scripts with programs like BAMM! and PyDwarf to automatically edit the raws, but that would complicate installation and add more 3rd party dependencies to just get the graphics set working. Not to mention, I have no idea how to use either program.

So would anyone have a solution? A way to create unique graphics for all ground tiles while maintaining mod and save compatibility?

I'm 99.99xx% sure that editing [tile:##] has absolutely no conflict with any save. As long as you don't add new [ ] there should be no conflicts. Those that add new things and actually touch and mess up the order of the existing raws make it hard to have any compatibility anyways so why worry about those mods, let those guys mess with that.

I'm pretty sure there's no conflict switching between phoebus/ironhand/obsisidan/spacefox (I've done it before but not extensively, but I've seen Quil18 switch between spacefox and phoebus) if they are running on the same version with the starterpack and even your pack should still have no compatibility issues. None of them add anything "new" or shouldn't, the only problem I could see if some have a sprite for gelder while some don't, but graphics folder stuff may not cause issues. 

There's another thread in the tileset section that has touched on engravings in floors and possibly walls, it should be the same thread you got your tree stump from. Unless you actually created it but it looks 100% identical to the one I'm talking about but that doesn't matter.

I haven't played 40.24 much so I don't have a save that has much in it so my circus has no magical holes of glowing wonder. Those are still in the storage boxes.

Anyways what's the wall override for wood or is there no difference there? Cause having a different wall for wood and stone/ metal would be pretty cool.

[DragonDePlatino]

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't changing the [TILE:XX] require some sort of patcher if you want an existing save to have the proper tiles for GemSet stone? If you created a mod that added more content onto the end of inorganic_stone_xxx.txt, you wouldn't be able to just paste in GemSet raws unless the modder put all of the content in new .txt files.

Or is that how people commonly do things?

Also, sorry. No material-specific overrides other than soil, grass, stone, minerals, constructions, HFS features, ice, trees, caps and lava (obsidian?)

[LeoCean]

I'd let them worry about that honestly.

If they add things to the end of the raws then they are thinking about compatibility (somewhat) but adding stuff within the existing stuff and messing up the order requires quite a good patcher to sort that stuff. I've no idea how good the mod patcher within the starter pack is.

I imagine people actually modify within unless they care enough to create other files for it. Which would be the better way to go about it as there's really no down side to it (Unless it's masterwork scale, then there's no way around it). Most mods I've seen have modified within but I don't really download many so I can't answer that. Also people would add mods ontop of gemset and not gemset on top of mods wouldn't they? And people who use mods should at least be a little handy in dealing with the problems that can arise from those issues.

You really shouldn't bother to worry about mod compatibility, what you are doing is something they will work around if they are interested in what you are doing. It's just a few files anyways. Anyways BAMM! requires users have python 3 installed, which I imagine not everyone which uses gemset would bother to do.

[DragonDePlatino]

Well, that's just the thing. I don't want to shift any burden to the modders. Right now, you can just copy/paste everything into your DF folder and it'll install nice and easy. If you try installing it over a mod, it won't override anything. But if I included edited raw folders with vanilla content and changed [TILE:XX] values, people would try to paste them into a mod and it would override the mod content.

Ugh, I'm so out of the loop about all of these patchers. Don't a majority of players use the LNP? And Masterwork? Would they be able to easily patch all of this stuff? What if people installed mods to these programs? I've finished a few dozen overrides by now and up next is SoilWall, so it's do or die now.

[PeridexisErrant]

Anyone using PyLNP will be fine - it's at least as good as any diff tool, so changed raws are fine.  We can even switch raw-affecting graphics packs on modded saves, which I'm pretty proud of    Most mod packages will likewise find a way around it, either by distributing various combinations or including their own install logic.  Other users will be used to installing graphics, and probably happy to for something this pretty.

So my advice is to make GemSet look as good as possible, and let us worry about the rest 

[DragonDePlatino]

YUS!

Good-looking rocks, plants and workshops, here I come!

(I'll make sure to document any changes while I'm at it)

[Meph]

I agree on what has been said. Changing tilenumbers still allows you to drag&drop your tileset raws into vanilla, and if people do mod, it's their responsibility. Many mods dont even touch vanilla files, instead add new files.

Adding just 1 item would mess up all the item overrides though.

For seeing the HFS: Try dfhack, "reveal all" or "reveal hell". Why do you need a savegame for that?

[DragonDePlatino]

Thanks! There's some HFS-related stuff I've overwritten and I need to make sure I've targeted the right ASCII tiles. I'm going to be overwriting everything, remember?

Also, tile overrides are going very smoothly. I went through and did some tweaks to the raws so soils are much more neatly organized now. I've got 4 unique tiles for topsoils, sands, clays and the ocean floor so now you can see at a glance what can be used for the glass and ceramic industries. Here's everything I've overwritten so far:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

Tile ASCII Tile (May be incorrect)

==========================================================================================================================================================

OpenSpace 178, 250
Chasm 35
EeriePit 42
Void ???
RampTop 31

Shrub 34, 58
ShrubDead 34, 58
Sapling 231
SaplingDead 231
Driftwood 240

Ashes1 242
Ashes2 243
Ashes3 126
Fire 39, 44, 46, 96
Campfire 15
MagmaFlow 247

SemiMoltenRock 176
GlowingBarrier 206
GlowingFloor 197

UnderworldGateStairU 60
UnderworldGateStairD 62
UnderworldGateStairUD 88

==========================================================================================================================================================

SoilFloor1 39, 247
SoilFloor2                  44, 247
SoilFloor3                  96, 126
SoilFloor4                  46, 126
SoilWetFloor1 39, 247
SoilWetFloor2               44, 247
SoilWetFloor3               96, 126
SoilWetFloor4               46, 126
FurrowedSoil 126, 205, 247
SoilWall (See below)
SoilRamp                    30
SoilStairU 60
SoilStairD 62
SoilStairUD 88

Old tiles:
176 Loam, Peat, Pelagic clay, Red sand, Sand (tan), Sandy clay loam, Sandy loam, Silty clay loam
177 Calcareous ooze, Clay loam, Loamy sand, Sandy clay, Siliceous ooze, Silt loam
178 Black sand, Clay, Fire clay, Silt, Silty clay, White sand, Yellow sand,

New tiles:
7 Pelagic clay, Siliceous ooze, Calcareous ooze
176 Clay, clay loam, Sandy clay, Silty clay, Fire clay
177 Sand (tan), Black sand, Red sand, White sand, Yellow sand
178 Loam, Loamy sand, Peat, Sandy clay loam, Sandy loam, Silt, Silty clay loam, Silt loam

[Klisz]

PTW; I generally prefer just ASCII character sets without any creature graphics or TWBT overrides, but this is really nice.

[DragonDePlatino]

Ohhh, and even if you don't like graphics, there will still be something in it for you! Theoretically, I could create a separate version of GemSet with no creature graphics and all of the overrides replaced with ASCII characters. You won't get any of the new graphics, but you'll get some contrast fixes for the ground tiles and some neat features like the aforementioned soil categories. I'm editing the raws with ASCII in mind so if you take away the tile overrides, everything still makes visual sense.

[Meph]

soils are much more neatly organized now.

As in: You changed the order they appear in the raw file? If the answer is yes, you have to realize that updating for future DF releases will be a lot harder. I'd keep everything in order, just changing tile numbers.

[Max™]

Yeah, that's what I did with my own little mod, there is something to be said for being able to drop the new files in without changing the old ones, but I tried to keep everything in the vanilla order so there wouldn't be problems later on.

Mixing up some of the orders has appeals for sure but it can be a pain to keep track of.


Ohhh, I think you mean you just sorted the DISPLAY tile more sensibly rather than reorganized the inorganic_soil.txt right?

[DragonDePlatino]

If installation scripts check certain lines and columns, I can understand how that would be a problem. Thankfully, I've only changed the values of some tokens and haven't moved any around. I'm also documenting everything in a format like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

inorganic_stone_soil.txt

[INORGANIC:CLAY]
[TILE:176]

[INORGANIC:SILTY_CLAY]
[TILE:176]

[INORGANIC:SANDY_CLAY]
[TILE:176]

[INORGANIC:CLAY_LOAM]
[TILE:176]

[INORGANIC:LOAM]
[TILE:178]

[INORGANIC:SANDY_LOAM]
[TILE:178]

[INORGANIC:SILT_LOAM]
[TILE:178]

[INORGANIC:LOAMY_SAND]
[TILE:178]

[INORGANIC:SAND_TAN]
[TILE:177]

[INORGANIC:SAND_YELLOW]
[TILE:177]

[INORGANIC:SAND_WHITE]
[TILE:177]

[INORGANIC:SAND_BLACK]
[TILE:177]

[INORGANIC:SAND_RED]
[TILE:177]

[INORGANIC:PEAT]
[TILE:178]

[INORGANIC:PELAGIC_CLAY]
[TILE:7]

[INORGANIC:CALCAREOUS_OOZE]
[TILE:7]

[INORGANIC:SILICEOUS_OOZE]
[TILE:7]

[INORGANIC:FIRE_CLAY]
[TILE:176]

However, if someone would like to me to format this differently so it can be read by an installation script, I can do that by request.

[Max™]

I can't imagine that causing any problems.

[Button]

If installation scripts check certain lines and columns, I can understand how that would be a problem. Thankfully, I've only changed the values of some tokens and haven't moved any around. I'm also documenting everything in a format like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

inorganic_stone_soil.txt

[INORGANIC:CLAY]
[TILE:176]

[INORGANIC:SILTY_CLAY]
[TILE:176]

[INORGANIC:SANDY_CLAY]
[TILE:176]

[INORGANIC:CLAY_LOAM]
[TILE:176]

[INORGANIC:LOAM]
[TILE:178]

[INORGANIC:SANDY_LOAM]
[TILE:178]

[INORGANIC:SILT_LOAM]
[TILE:178]

[INORGANIC:LOAMY_SAND]
[TILE:178]

[INORGANIC:SAND_TAN]
[TILE:177]

[INORGANIC:SAND_YELLOW]
[TILE:177]

[INORGANIC:SAND_WHITE]
[TILE:177]

[INORGANIC:SAND_BLACK]
[TILE:177]

[INORGANIC:SAND_RED]
[TILE:177]

[INORGANIC:PEAT]
[TILE:178]

[INORGANIC:PELAGIC_CLAY]
[TILE:7]

[INORGANIC:CALCAREOUS_OOZE]
[TILE:7]

[INORGANIC:SILICEOUS_OOZE]
[TILE:7]

[INORGANIC:FIRE_CLAY]
[TILE:176]

However, if someone would like to me to format this differently so it can be read by an installation script, I can do that by request.

BAMM! will interpret this as you wanting to remove the DISPLAY_COLOR, ITEM_SYMBOL, BUILD_COLOR and BASIC_COLOR tags from these soils. If you want any of those to stick around - and you probably want at least BUILD_COLOR, BASIC_COLOR and ITEM_SYMBOL for the clays - you probably want to include those too.

However, BAMM! is totally cool with you re-ordering the objects, as long as the file name stays the same.