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Author Topic: What's going on in your fort?  (Read 4901866 times)

A_Curious_Cat

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Re: What's going on in your fort?
« Reply #56115 on: July 13, 2021, 11:10:28 pm »

How did it fall?

Not quite sure.  First there was the problem that Everyone seemed to be ignoring the tavern and temple that I set up.  Then there was the Werecreature that came, and I didn’t have a military or any way to keep it out (or get my dwarves inside quickly).

I think the last straw was a channeling accident that occurred when I sent a miner to channel out a spot that had previously been missed while my haulers were clearing the area (either that or one of my haulers up and died of old age while atop a ramp and dropped his Boulder down the ramp and onto another hauler.  It was too hard to tell from the reports and announcement.). Anyways, thing really went downhill from there…

Things to do in my next fort:

See if I can find a way to temporarily block access to my fort from outside.

See if there’s a way to get those who are outside to quickly high-tail it inside.

See if there’s any way that I can get a military up and going faster (I’d start out with copper gear, but I’m concerned about my militia becoming attached to the copper stuff and refusing to upgrade later.  That and most of the early threats are showing up with iron or better.).

Remember to be more careful when channeling.
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nickbii

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Re: What's going on in your fort?
« Reply #56116 on: July 14, 2021, 11:29:37 am »

Two of my always dos in DF:

1) Always make a moat around my main Fort that is as deep as I can get it without flooding. 5-Z-Levels if I can. Places where I can't get a strategically placed wall. 3-5 squares wide. Access to the fort is via a bridge.

2) Never channel more than one Z-level of a major excavation at once. There is absolutely no need for you to do multiples. They will kill themselves, in the most inconvenient way possible.

After that is achieved I start attaching levers, and building walls around my safe area so that gobboes can't shoot my haulers from the safety of the other side of the moat.
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TubaDragoness

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Re: What's going on in your fort?
« Reply #56117 on: July 14, 2021, 01:26:43 pm »

Things to do in my next fort:

See if I can find a way to temporarily block access to my fort from outside.

See if there’s a way to get those who are outside to quickly high-tail it inside.

See if there’s any way that I can get a military up and going faster (I’d start out with copper gear, but I’m concerned about my militia becoming attached to the copper stuff and refusing to upgrade later.  That and most of the early threats are showing up with iron or better.).

Remember to be more careful when channeling.

I always have an "airlock" of two sets of doors with space between them and stone blocks stockpiled nearby. In case of invaders, get everyone inside and forbid the doors. In case of building destroyer invaders, forbid the doors and build walls behind them with the nearby blocks. The travel time from the edge of the map plus the time it takes to destroy the doors is usually enough time to get those walls built, especially since blocks are much faster to haul than stone boulders. More sophisticated drawbridge/moat/wall setups can wait until I have the labor force to work with. This also is handy to have inside your fortress in the case of an invasion that does breech your perimeter, or a civil war/tavern brawl/accidental spill where you need to lock down part of your fort.

Getting everyone inside is easy; set up a burrow that covers all the inside areas of your fortress. Don't include the doors, and name it something obvious like "Emergency" or "Inside". When you need to sound the alarm, go to your military screen, find the alerts tab, and set Inactive (Civ) to your emergency burrow. All dwarves should immediately cancel tasks and retreat inside, though you might need to forbid heavy hauled items if they don't drop them automatically.

The militia advice, I'll leave to the threads that already exist. However, copper is a perfectly reasonable material for blunt weapons such as hammers and maces, and dwarves don't seem to get too emotionally distraught on being separated from gear they have an attachment to. You have plenty of time to swap it out before they name it and it becomes an artifact.
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Splint

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Re: What's going on in your fort?
« Reply #56118 on: July 16, 2021, 04:46:55 am »

Decided to fire up a fort using a cocktail of SVE, What Lurks Below, Lands of Duality, and Primal.

I don't know what happened, I went in blind, but there's no dwarves, only subjugated/dispossessed humans from a nation known as The Embraced Kingdom. And no matter where they go, they have few friends. The settlers have chosen The Mire of Attack for thier home, mainly because it's centrally located and put them in range of at least four trade partners: Kestrel, Blue Shark, and Lizard Men as well as the Elves. Signs point to there hopefully being a chance for Lion Men to also be nearby that might come to the place as mercenaries, but they're a hair too far out for trade.

The place shall be known as Crownfates, founded by The Coalition of Crowns. They (just like most others, even with my tweaks,) have a fair stock of dinosaurs to draw on, and wherever they're from was near mountains and savage deserts as they have a number of creatures from SVE only found in the mountains and caverns and plants only found in the aforementioned savage deserts. They also aren't exactly winners when it comes to thier cultural values. It's like RNG set these people up for failure as a culture.

Also found a typo to fix for SVE, so that's great.  ::)

Still, while I lack access to steel and primordium directly, things should go well if the mineral resources aren't junk. Maybe. Hopefully.

EDIT: Excellent mineral weath so far, with ample magnetite and hematite readily available along with bog iron and native copper.

SpaceKitty

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Re: What's going on in your fort?
« Reply #56119 on: July 16, 2021, 10:14:36 am »

Reaching now the point where the absolute majority of the fort masters necromancy and... never again.
 
Had to take care of a couple ogres, nothing to sweat about, and it turned again into a gesture party.
A little squad vs 4 invaders, a fight that should have been just a mere skirmish, brought the game to its knees, and incidentally killed the whole fort.

Not sure exactly what happened, but looks like the moment there's something resurrectable and a dwarf gets spooked, it gestures. The resurrected unit is supposed to be friendly but there's combat log between them and other dwarves around. There's also a significant loyalty spam: "this is my fight, I have a part in this etc...". This leads to more body parts, more gestures etc.. and it never ends.

Necromancy is broken, and ending the fort this way is frustrating.
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Salmeuk

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Re: What's going on in your fort?
« Reply #56120 on: July 16, 2021, 02:03:05 pm »

I dunno spacekitty, a few years ago your perspective might have been different. The fact we could successfully retrieve the secrets of life and death and then convert out entire fortress into evil necromancers was pretty dang cool in the first place. I would also argue that no necromancer worth their salt would want to share a fortress with 90 other necromancers. So the whole, you know, "I raised an undead troll that is now killing the rest of the fortress" is an apt ending to anyone insane enough to try the above, and arguably not 'broken'.

Though, there is perhaps a point to be made regarding newly raised undead truly adopting the alignment of their necromancer, but even then I feel as though Dwarven opposition to death-made-into-life would still result in the above cascades.
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DwarfStar

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Re: What's going on in your fort?
« Reply #56121 on: July 16, 2021, 04:48:23 pm »

I agree..perhaps necromancy is intentionally broken, and accidentally getting a necromancer via copied book is supposed to be a Fun-inducing event similar to a werebeast infection. The whole “opposed to life” thing seems incompatible with…life.

If you want to play with learning secrets without having undead everywhere, I recommend trying one of the mods that implement magic that way like Aeramore (just beware, in that mod, water mages are necros which I found out the hard way).
« Last Edit: July 17, 2021, 10:58:28 pm by DwarfStar »
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A_Curious_Cat

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Re: What's going on in your fort?
« Reply #56122 on: July 16, 2021, 07:27:34 pm »

The last three necromancers I got came in migration waves.
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SpaceKitty

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Re: What's going on in your fort?
« Reply #56123 on: July 17, 2021, 03:25:18 am »

I dunno spacekitty, a few years ago your perspective might have been different. The fact we could successfully retrieve the secrets of life and death and then convert out entire fortress into evil necromancers was pretty dang cool in the first place.

Yeah maybe but that was hardly an achievement in this one.

It's a thousand years old world, and necromancy is everywhere. It just came into the fortress by itself, and just building the library enabled fast replication to the whole population without having to do anything. The challenge would have been to keep it out of the stronghold in the first place.

My beef is more of a technical nature, when the tiniest fight cascades into an endless loop of resurrection of meaningless body parts, driving performance to a halt and slaughtering innocent bystanders. It's not like there was any drama brewing in the population, as happiness in general was kept high, and not in a single tantrum so far as everyone's needs was being addressed.

I'd love to figure out what went wrong, but it seems more like a game mechanic tweak problem, something unfinished. 

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Mobbstar

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Re: What's going on in your fort?
« Reply #56124 on: July 17, 2021, 06:14:08 am »

My beef is more of a technical nature, when the tiniest fight cascades into an endless loop of resurrection of meaningless body parts, driving performance to a halt and slaughtering innocent bystanders. It's not like there was any drama brewing in the population, as happiness in general was kept high, and not in a single tantrum so far as everyone's needs was being addressed.

I'd love to figure out what went wrong, but it seems more like a game mechanic tweak problem, something unfinished.

A possible ducttape fix to the FPS problem could be to simply elongate the cooldown of the necromancy ability. (That's possible in uncompressed saves, right?)

Perhaps a more sophisticated solution would be a condition akin to a reverse martial trance, where the necromancers only use their abilities if they have no living allies nearby (and conversely not too many nonliving allies or neutral unliving helpers). This could also result in new fun quirks, like a necromancer resurrecting the entire morgue when stubbing their toe.
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A_Curious_Cat

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Re: What's going on in your fort?
« Reply #56125 on: July 17, 2021, 10:35:51 pm »

Ok...

Hopefully things will go better this time.




The dwarves of The Walls of Roughness, hailing from The Confining Canyon,  have come to ac spot in The Mortal Jungle of The Continents of Will.

Here they have decided to found a fortress which they have decided to call "Swamppaged".











Strike The Earth!




Edit:

Dwarves cancel Make Fortress:  not enough stone layers between surface and first cavern.




Welp!  Time to try again!
« Last Edit: July 17, 2021, 11:57:23 pm by A_Curious_Cat »
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Kat

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Re: What's going on in your fort?
« Reply #56126 on: July 18, 2021, 03:50:06 am »

Found a cavern in my own fortress... unit list shows some odd things... a lot of dead troglodyte babies. Ten skeletons and corpses, and a few adult skeletons. So I go looking...

There's a group of troglodytes stuck up a fungiwood tree, which is surrounded by water... is there an aquifer that has been leaking into the cavern ?

Seems like the female troglodytes had been giving birth while stuck up this tree, and most of the babies had fallen into the water and drowned...

Well, that's depressing.  :-\
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Mobbstar

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Re: What's going on in your fort?
« Reply #56127 on: July 18, 2021, 08:31:36 am »

Found a cavern in my own fortress... unit list shows some odd things... a lot of dead troglodyte babies. Ten skeletons and corpses, and a few adult skeletons. So I go looking...

There's a group of troglodytes stuck up a fungiwood tree, which is surrounded by water... is there an aquifer that has been leaking into the cavern ?

Seems like the female troglodytes had been giving birth while stuck up this tree, and most of the babies had fallen into the water and drowned...

Well, that's depressing.  :-\

That's incredibly macabre.

To my knowledge, aquifers that are naturally exposed to caverns don't actually produce water until the adjacent terrain changes.

Trogoldykes can and will climb across rock walls to get across lakes, but I have no idea why they stay on the tree (or, if there is no rock wall to get out, how they got there in the first place) and why the babies tumble off.
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Uthimienure

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Re: What's going on in your fort?
« Reply #56128 on: July 18, 2021, 12:52:08 pm »

5x5 embark "GraveArmor" is in it's 9th year (year 14), and one of the three forgotten beast sheep (now with its trunk broken) is still hanging around after several years, maintaining the region's theme and killing scores of beasts & reanimated dead.

The dorfs finished a large project (60 x 110 x 10-high) cavern area channeled 10 levels down, leaving the natural pillars. It has grand, porcelain-statued balconies at 4 cave entrances with doors. Approximately 30 miners lost their lives in accidents during this endeavor. Starting to dismantle some of the 16 masons shops that made ~10,000 granite & quartzite blocks from the project. Granite being used for the aboveground construction.



We continue to refuse dozens of guild petitions, and we've only had one dorf go insane so far. We're sticking with "no bridges" for more !!FUN!!

Currently we have 229 citizens, including 10 humans:
 44 miners (living)
  6 woodcutters
 39 masons
  2 hunters
  4 fishers
 40 warriors
 10 x-bow dorfs
100 armed civilians
 - - - - -
 68 dead, including the 30 miners

The dead still rise in the south and east biomes, and goblins have sent 3 smallish sieges.

797 enemy dead so far

Here's the 3 storey walled castle and partial trap ring:



(edit: the embark is 5x5, not 7x7)
« Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 09:16:53 am by Uthimienure »
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Kat

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Re: What's going on in your fort?
« Reply #56129 on: July 18, 2021, 04:42:31 pm »

There's a group of troglodytes stuck up a fungiwood tree, which is surrounded by water...

That's incredibly macabre.

To my knowledge, aquifers that are naturally exposed to caverns don't actually produce water until the adjacent terrain changes.

Trogoldykes can and will climb across rock walls to get across lakes, but I have no idea why they stay on the tree (or, if there is no rock wall to get out, how they got there in the first place) and why the babies tumble off.

There are also giant cave spiders, there are webs here and there. Maybe they fled onto the tree while in combat, and are now stuck. Weird and yes, macabre.

The tree is also close to the edge of the map, if that would make a difference.
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