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Author Topic: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: The Barren Snowflake Wastes  (Read 290374 times)

NullForceOmega

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Okay, I've noticed a LOT of D&D/Pathfinder discussion of late, and it doesn't seem to fit into the Tabletop Games thread.

This thread is for D&D/Pathfinder players, DMs, and interested parties to share experiences, engage in some world building, and generally discuss the games.

From the outset I want a few things clear, DO NOT engage in 'version X is better than version Y' discussion/argument, I will lock down the thread and report the parties responsible. (Even if it's me.)

Sometimes games get graphic, try to be considerate of other forumgoers and keep more brutal/nasty/lascivious details spoilered, general descriptions of sex are probably fine, but not excessive detail (most people generally understand sex, right?), as for nasty and brutal, I'd just prefer that the gory details be kept spoilered, it's okay to explain that something was killed in a horribly violent fashion, but the details of the viscera are spoiler material, and it is fine to explain that the badguy's perversion include torturing children and raping them, but not okay to throw the details out in public.  Again, I will lock down and call the Toad.

Addendum 1: NO gods be damned alignment discussions, this subject has become less charged recently, but I will still ask you to use the alignment thread.  If you do not comply, I will have to call the Toad.  Bohandas has kindly put up a thread specifically to discuss alignments, and I am putting the link up right here for people
Addendum 2: KEEP IT CIVIL, no attacks, no attitude (even me.)  If I issue a warning, it may contain vulgarity, this is facet of my baseline communication tendencies and is not likely to change ever.

Addendum 3: Try to keep discussion limited to actual game elements (rules, character creation, adventure/campaign ideas), I realize that discussions tend to range over a broad range of topics, but some are not acceptable for this thread.  If I ask you to drop a subject, please do so, I am just trying to avoid lengthy off-topic arguments.

Addendum 4: If you have concerns over how I handle curation of this thread then feel free to PM me, I appreciate feedback that can help me do a better job and keep me from being an asshole.

Addendum 5: Discussion of the literary merits and authorial intent of a PnP game, module, or related work are conditionally allowed, if discussion veers too far away from the actual game, module, setting, or authorial intent, I may ask you to stop.  In the spirit of this it is acceptable to discuss specific issues relating to the author in question, but if it turns into a hate train, I will derail with extreme prejudice.

(I may edit this post for further clarification, or add some quotes from interesting stories, I may also expand for other PnP games, if anyone is playing them and wants to share.)

101 wilderness encounters from the Bay12 hivemind:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The link below is provided courtesy of My Name is Immaterial, it goes to a googledocs spreadsheet that contains the names of Bay 12 members who are looking for D&D and Pathfinder games:
Bay 12 players

If you are hurting for players, let me know, and I'll put up some free advertising (in the form of changing the title, not going crazy here).
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 05:17:29 pm by NullForceOmega »
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UXLZ

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons (and Pathfinder), share your experiences.
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2015, 11:33:57 pm »

What do you think the limit on the brutal/nasty/lascivious details are? Give us an example of something just skirting the edge of acceptable, plehz. I mean, if someone frequents /d/, aint nothin' gonna phase 'em, but otherwise it varies.
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Re: Dungeons & Dragons (and Pathfinder), share your experiences.
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2015, 11:35:11 pm »

PTW. I've got some semi-decent stories that I'll type up later. Nothing approaching BlackFlyme's DM, but still.
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UXLZ

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons (and Pathfinder), share your experiences.
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2015, 11:37:06 pm »

To be fair, there isn't much that approaches the level of BlackFlyme's DM.
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NullForceOmega

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons (and Pathfinder), share your experiences.
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2015, 11:37:58 pm »

That's a bit hard to pin down, I'll admit, general descriptions of sex are probably fine, but not excessive detail (most people generally understand sex, right?), as for nasty and brutal, I'd just prefer that the gory details be kept spoilered, it's okay to explain that something was killed in a horribly violent fashion, but the details of the viscera are spoiler material, and it is fine to explain that the badguy's perversion include torturing children and raping them, but not okay to throw the details out in public.

Edit: I'll add this to the OP.
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Grey morality is for people who wish to avoid retribution for misdeeds.

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Tawa

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons (and Pathfinder), share your experiences.
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2015, 11:41:46 pm »

To be fair, there isn't much that approaches the level of BlackFlyme's DM.
Well, WaffleHouseMillionaire's DM was maybe a tier below this one. That Guy [Kills All Psions]'s playergroup could be considered the player equivalent of BlackFlyme's DM, I guess, too.

...

PTW.
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wierd

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons (and Pathfinder), share your experiences.
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2015, 11:44:13 pm »

I'd say this depends on how the DM wants to roll with it.

There ARE pervert players (LOTS of pervert players), and while the DM may prefer to NOT give juicy details about juices (ahem)-- If the player(s) try to be peeping toms, then the DM should probably let them-- but should have consequences fitting and natural to the circumstances involved to keep the scenario from devolving into pure pornographic gratification.

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NullForceOmega

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons (and Pathfinder), share your experiences.
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2015, 11:45:01 pm »

So, on the WTF thread, we've pretty much confirmed that Blackflyme's DM is a Bad DM, what do you guys think makes a good DM?
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Yoink

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons (and Pathfinder), share your experiences.
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2015, 11:47:20 pm »

The halfling called me a mean name so I threw him down the cellar stairs.
Into the dwarf, who was single-beardedly fighting a pack of ghouls at the time. And then I was pressured into marrying the goblin princess.
Fuck.
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flame99

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons (and Pathfinder), share your experiences.
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2015, 11:52:11 pm »

PtW
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wierd

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons (and Pathfinder), share your experiences.
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2015, 11:52:43 pm »

Does not railroad plot, and permits players to spin their wheels in futility chasing geese around, if that is their wish-- but at least makes said goose chasing entertaining, and thus still enjoyable for the group. Part of a good setting for the plot is an evocative, and alluring environment that begs to be explored, after all.  Not all exploring is going to advance the plot, but exploring is part of what makes a good game session fun and entertaining. A good DM is not afraid of "irrelevant bullshit", as long as it is setting appropriate, and not just players being shits. (The story equivalent of drawing dicks on everything, just because they can.  A good DM would let somebody do that, then have the offender arrested by the city guard for vadalism and lewd public displays, and conjure up a new mini-plot device about getting ShitPlayer out of jail.)

Does not produce consequences that are bullshit.  Produces consequences that are sensible, rational, and fitting to the story and setting.

Does not try to murder offensive player characters; instead, "encourages" better behavior through appropriate application of consequences.

NOT a rule book beating puritanical tyrant.
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NullForceOmega

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons (and Pathfinder), share your experiences.
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2015, 11:55:50 pm »

That almost describes my thoughts and style to a 't'.  I've had several DMs that were good about making the world an interesting place and I often find more enjoyment letting a plot develop organically due to action or inaction.
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Neonivek

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons (and Pathfinder), share your experiences.
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2015, 12:08:24 am »

I am currently trying to expand my sort of idea of what is and isn't allowed as a DM

Ultimately though a DM can be both narrow or vast it just amounts to styles. I've had both fun railroaded games and incredibly boring open games, and vise versa.

Yet the important thing is that even when you put a player down a path, that they need to feel like they own that path. That their talents, abilities, intelligence, and character all contribute to their success... rather then feeling like they are spinning their wheels until the DM decides they won.

A good DM BETTER be afraid of "Irrelevant bullshit" or else they are a bad DM. Horror be the game where the plot just flat out stops and the player complain that they are bored because "Who knew doing nothing would be boring?". It is the DM's job to make sure the irrelevant BS is significant and interesting.

I certainly had a game halt into long periods of dull because a player decided to derail the entire plot to their own benefit. I had to basically force the players into doing something productive because they were getting bored of "The adventures of Prince Mary Sue"

--

Things always feel like a war between the players and DMs anyhow... rather then a co-operative experience.

I am always constantly afraid that the players don't want any consequences.

But that is because I was told directly by a player that they want no consequences... That they don't want anything negative to happen to their character, the people they know, or for there to be a negative side effect for ignoring the main plot.

It is that sort of internalized fear that comes into play every time I run a game...

When I first starting trying to DM I was really lousy at it, but I liked how I mostly was more about the freeform gameplay. Players could lose their equipment, insane crazy crud could just happen because, and stuff... but the players always came out on top anyway. I kind of liked those games more then anything else I ran.

Heck I once ran a minisession where these guys went to a haunted house and the house had magical flying termites that ate magical objects. I didn't see anything wrong with it at the time, I was rather inexperienced and didn't realize the implications of what I did. The player though didn't mind, heck he found the session wonderful.

In fact that is the weird thing... All my oldest sessions where I just did what I wanted, sending the craziest crud against the players... Were considered refreshing and fun... I kind of wish I could recapture that.

---

Everything is just a cloak and dagger as a DM.

A hard thing to do when people aren't your friends is to show them that random elements in your game aren't necessarily "mistakes".

When I ran a game for example I introduced a major villain rather easy. The players were able to "sneak" up to him and get him to surrender and call away his guard rather easily.

Truth be known it is because he knew he wasn't in any danger and was wearing an entire set of animated objects to deal with our Heroes in case anything went wrong.

But to the players they thought I was just letting them win because "Otherwise they couldn't have won".

I wasn't able to project an atmosphere of competence to my players and lost their confidence in my ability to run the game.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 12:16:08 am by Neonivek »
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wierd

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons (and Pathfinder), share your experiences.
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2015, 12:14:15 am »

Think about what the players are asking for when they say they dont want any adverse consequences for actions--  They are wanting a blank cheque to go scrawl dicks on everything, due to blatant wish fulfillment. 

That is NOT how a game is supposed to be run.  A game is SUPPOSED to be a WORLD that players interact with. Not a "Stroke my ego until I orgasm!" simulator. (That's what bad fan-fiction is for.)

Part of what makes a world compelling and seem real (and thus engaging) is the existence of natural consequences. Players that dont want to accept this, or worse, outright reject this, are not interested in playing a game. They are interested in something else entirely. Call them on it.

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NullForceOmega

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons (and Pathfinder), share your experiences.
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2015, 12:14:42 am »

I find that the best way to get a stalled campaign moving again is to have the random shit that players do have unforeseen consequences, like having the owner of that high-class bar they trashed last night have them shanghaied aboard a merchantman bound to someplace foreign and hostile, it tends to be effective (and the shit that happens when you do something like this is hilarious.)

A good game is a continuous dialog between the players and the DM, the players take their actions and the DM decides what happens, the players take action based on that decision, and so on.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 12:16:56 am by NullForceOmega »
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Grey morality is for people who wish to avoid retribution for misdeeds.

NullForceOmega is an immortal neanderthal who has been an amnesiac for the past 5000 years.
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