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Author Topic: Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: COBRA!!!  (Read 834220 times)

MrRoboto75

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: The Barren Snowflake Wastes
« Reply #6555 on: February 05, 2019, 03:09:55 pm »

>not using Hamon Energy
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Kagus

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: The Barren Snowflake Wastes
« Reply #6556 on: February 05, 2019, 04:25:21 pm »

Good grief, the "example of play" for World of Synnibarr is a train wreck...


On another note, anyone have experience with Atlantis: The Second Age? The FATAL and Friends review trails off pretty early on, and I thought some of it looked interesting. Although, I must admit, a couple of the racial options look somewhat problematic to roleplay... Like, yeah, we've got the actively apathetic gorillamen, the inherently psychopathic neanderthals, and then there are the djinni who are really just seven colors of fucked. Not entirely sure how well you can communicate when most of your sentences either trail off or start in the middle.

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Mephisto

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: The Barren Snowflake Wastes
« Reply #6557 on: February 05, 2019, 04:41:24 pm »

On another note, anyone have experience with Atlantis: The Second Age?

I can't tell if the review is for first or second edition. I own first edition (and the old '80s edition) but haven't played. Any questions? I can maybe share some snippets.
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Kagus

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: The Barren Snowflake Wastes
« Reply #6558 on: February 05, 2019, 04:54:46 pm »

Was mainly interested in how well the gameplay flowed in a standard game, and yeah... Curious as to how broken, mechanically or roleplay-wise, the different races were. Not to mention spellcasting! Which the review never got around to digging into...

Like, the however many varieties of furry races seemed easy enough to fit into an adventuring party, but how do you work out playing a race that by definition cannot feel emotions or conceptualize actions that aren't directly and immediately self-serving? Not to mention trying to play "chaotic random" as another personality type.

I'm also not particularly familiar with the Omega system as a whole, but I do remember hearing about it singing its own praises back in the day.

Mephisto

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: The Barren Snowflake Wastes
« Reply #6559 on: February 05, 2019, 09:17:06 pm »

« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 09:20:55 pm by Mephisto »
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Kagus

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: The Barren Snowflake Wastes
« Reply #6560 on: February 06, 2019, 03:47:45 am »

Well, good to know. I've actually been pondering about freeform-ish spellcasting lately, trying to think how it might work without being either worthless or completely overpowered...

My original thinking was about trying to turn spellcasters into the "knowledge" class. In stuff like DnD, while they might have a big INT bonus that applies to knowledge skills, they generally don't really have that many points sunk into them, or much reason to do so.

So how would one tie spellcasting into a character's actual arcane knowledge, without it being subject to bowling over encounters with an inflated skill check? While being the lore and knowledge buff of the party is all well and good, we of course want them to be able to contribute in situations outside of "what do these runes say", preferably without turning them into the usual spellflinging two-legged apocalypse that invalidates the rest of the crew.

I'm not sure freeform spellcasting is necessarily the way to go in that circumstance (pulling different spell effects/targets from various schools of research), but it is still interesting to try and imagine how such a system might work.

I'll have to look into Atlantis' system and see how they do things. And of course everything has tits, how would we know they were female unless they looked like human women? The old gods understood this.

wierd

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: The Barren Snowflake Wastes
« Reply #6561 on: February 06, 2019, 04:04:52 am »

Rather than tie to an intrinsic, like INT, tie to a skill domain instead.  In this case, "Arcane spellcasting".


OR,  Break down what is required to know how to do something into some bite-size knowledge bits, and then give them tiers.

EG-  "Fire domain knowledge", "Lightning domain knowledge", ... etc  with say each being a gradient from 0 to 10.  For each spell to be learned, give them a requisite domain requirement. (EG, "Needs 10 fire, 5 matter, and 2 lighting domain knowledge to learn.")  Maybe spice it up with a general "Applied channeling" domain as well, so you can overload spells safely.  You could tie intrinsics like INT to gaining additional domain knowledge points as you level up. (EG, "No, you can't up fire to 10, because your INT is too low to get to that tier.", etc.)



The downside to any expansion from the generalization from the base attribute method is that calculating requirements and outcomes becomes more and more tedious the less abstracted it becomes.  If you went with knowledge domain based requirements, be sure to keep the total number of domains manageable.

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Kagus

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: The Barren Snowflake Wastes
« Reply #6562 on: February 06, 2019, 04:15:11 am »

Yes, but the idea was to have the skills themselves actually be applicable to the campaign, and then build magical effects off of that so that they have something to do when the chips are down.

Like, being knowledgeable about the divine language would not only let them translate passages of the language found on the adventure, but would also grant them knowledge of powerful words/commandments that could be enunciated for effect.

Knowledge of the orcish tribes and their history as a species would let you use that historical and biological knowledge when applicable, as well as granting a deeper understanding of their essential banes, letting you tailor a word of power to specifically target (and thereby have greater effect on) those sorts of orc, avoiding "friendly fire", so to speak. Then you'd have to figure out how to formulate it correctly, which would probably be more involved/lengthy the more descriptors used. pargon pargon pargon

In effect I suppose it mainly comes down to semantics, like "fire domain" vs "fire domain, but also used to identify campfires", but yeah.

wierd

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: The Barren Snowflake Wastes
« Reply #6563 on: February 06, 2019, 04:45:01 am »

I would put "Knowledge of fire, and its subsequent and component features" together in that domain.  This would then include things like combustion and oxidation, enthalpy, etc-- all in the same knowledge box.

With more obscure things being known only with a higher tier value.


The idea being that each spell that gets more powerful or useful, ends up requiring points in domains that convey the needed knowledge to create the effect.

For example, a greater fireball may need knowledge in the air domain (for its necessity to understand gas dynamics for the explosion), the matter domain (to get enough energy to stay in a semi-stable state while in flight rather than fizzling out), and the metaphysics domain (to be able to draw and handle enough energy to create the effect). 

It could have requirements like F6,A2,M2,C2

And could be modified to be more penetrating with added requirements, like say fluid physics (learned from water domain). 

I would tie it back with the base intrinsics (INT, CHA, DEX and pals) by requiring a baseline stat requirement before being able to gain additional points in the desired domains.   (EG,  need INT of 10-11 for "Fire 0-1", int12-13 for F2-4, ... etc.)

Just be careful not to go too far because then it becomes "Accounting Simulator and Logistics, Pen and Paper edition!" very quickly.

By breaking down any arbitrary effect into a knowledge and base ability requirement, you can then find a way to codify it into such a system, which would make it very flexible.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 04:53:17 am by wierd »
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Cthulhu

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: The Barren Snowflake Wastes
« Reply #6564 on: February 06, 2019, 08:23:02 am »

Ars Magica does freeform spellcasting pretty well.  There are skills for elements and verbs and you can combine two to do anything reasonably covered by the verb, so if you know earth, air, and move you could pull a boulder out of the ground to make a walkway, or throw it at someone, or make a fire spread, etc.

It also has an interesting twist with parma magica which makes wizards nearly immune to magic.  Fling that boulder at a wizard and it wont even get dirt on his robes.  Fling it straight up like a mortar though and its gravity killing him, not magic.  Wizard duels are about creative usage of magic yo indirectly attack the enemy, or going Black Company style and trying to assassinate him.  Parma magica doesnt work on a sword
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Kagus

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: The Barren Snowflake Wastes
« Reply #6565 on: February 06, 2019, 08:49:41 am »

I like to use parma magica on my spaghetti.

Mephisto

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: The Barren Snowflake Wastes
« Reply #6566 on: February 06, 2019, 09:12:07 am »

Kagus hasn't (presumably) been killed by magic yet. Story checks out.
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IcyTea31

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: The Barren Snowflake Wastes
« Reply #6567 on: February 06, 2019, 01:11:04 pm »

Knowledge of the orcish tribes and their history as a species would let you use that historical and biological knowledge when applicable, as well as granting a deeper understanding of their essential banes, letting you tailor a word of power to specifically target (and thereby have greater effect on) those sorts of orc, avoiding "friendly fire", so to speak.
There's your answer: knowledge of enemy weaknesses to boost the output of the entire party, and a palette of varied magics to exploit those weaknesses. Make the knowledge skill use into a support ability and you get a useful class that can't nevertheless end encounters on its own.
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MrRoboto75

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: The Barren Snowflake Wastes
« Reply #6568 on: February 06, 2019, 02:15:51 pm »

EG-  "Fire domain knowledge", "Lightning domain knowledge", ... etc  with say each being a gradient from 0 to 10.  For each spell to be learned, give them a requisite domain requirement. (EG, "Needs 10 fire, 5 matter, and 2 lighting domain knowledge to learn.")  Maybe spice it up with a general "Applied channeling" domain as well, so you can overload spells safely.  You could tie intrinsics like INT to gaining additional domain knowledge points as you level up. (EG, "No, you can't up fire to 10, because your INT is too low to get to that tier.", etc.)

Isn't that basically how Mage: The Awakening worked?
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Kadzar

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Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: The Barren Snowflake Wastes
« Reply #6569 on: February 06, 2019, 05:49:21 pm »

-snip-
Atlantis: The Second Age's mechanics sound remarkably a lot like Talislanta's.
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