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[Persus13]

I run games in Eberron, so goblins are a pretty normal part of society other than they have their own nation. The exceptions are the ones who remember they used to rule the continent long before the humans showed up. And those ones usually have names of they're own they're very proud to have, so I've yet to have that problem.

[scriver]

Yeah but Eberron goblins aren't goblins, they're just elves

[Cruxador]

Yeah drop it here, I could spare a few minutes or two. Also how do you guys do goblins? /tg/ DMs general rule of thumb is never let your players give the goblins names. The moment they have names the entire campaign becomes derailed

I reckon this only really applies if your goblins are goofy and zany, as in Pathfinder, Warcraft, and to a lesser extent things like M:tG and Warhammer, which have a slightly subtler sense of humor. If you don't treat a goblin as a free ticket to chaos, then they're just an ordinary race. The problem is a lot of people see anything smaller than a dwarf as a mandate to veer of into lolsorandumb shitpost type behavior, and that has a tendency to undermine games.

[Trekkin]

Yeah drop it here, I could spare a few minutes or two. Also how do you guys do goblins? /tg/ DMs general rule of thumb is never let your players give the goblins names. The moment they have names the entire campaign becomes derailed

I reckon this only really applies if your goblins are goofy and zany, as in Pathfinder, Warcraft, and to a lesser extent things like M:tG and Warhammer, which have a slightly subtler sense of humor. If you don't treat a goblin as a free ticket to chaos, then they're just an ordinary race. The problem is a lot of people see anything smaller than a dwarf as a mandate to veer of into lolsorandumb shitpost type behavior, and that has a tendency to undermine games.

I think there's also a worry about the players adopting them. Since they're usually trash mobs for early adventurers, they're not a threat at higher levels, and they're usually intelligent to a degree that belies "always chaotic evil" or similar moral handwaves. That they are often ugly cute is a further inducement to try to redeem them and/or keep them as pets.

My players have historically been addicted to this kind of thing, and I've learned to turn it into a plot hook. If the players are still too unimportant for the BBEG to intervene in their affairs, their adoptees can trip over the plot (sometimes literally) and get lost trying to follow it, at which point the party will hare off looking for them; if, on the other hand, they've been derailed from an extant plot, it's easy enough to have a plot-relevant villain arrange for their mascots and adoptees and other hangers-on to be kidnapped "to send a message." The party will naturally chase after them as before, only now you can have them discover the horribly mangled remains of the aforementioned cute monsters at an appropriately climactic moment, accompanied by some indication that they were casually tortured to death for whatever reason will infuriate the party most. (You might be tempted to have the villain have the adoptees turned into suicide weapons. While having their wards run happily towards the party only to explode mid-tearful-reunion-hug is certainly impactful, in my experience it leads into trying to get them raised first and foremost. Turning them into undead is somewhat safer in this regard, if you can pull off the reveal.)

In any event, the party will almost certainly carry on through to final victory out of revenge at that point. Problem solved.

[Cruxador]

Yeah drop it here, I could spare a few minutes or two. Also how do you guys do goblins? /tg/ DMs general rule of thumb is never let your players give the goblins names. The moment they have names the entire campaign becomes derailed

I reckon this only really applies if your goblins are goofy and zany, as in Pathfinder, Warcraft, and to a lesser extent things like M:tG and Warhammer, which have a slightly subtler sense of humor. If you don't treat a goblin as a free ticket to chaos, then they're just an ordinary race. The problem is a lot of people see anything smaller than a dwarf as a mandate to veer of into lolsorandumb shitpost type behavior, and that has a tendency to undermine games.

I think there's also a worry about the players adopting them. Since they're usually trash mobs for early adventurers, they're not a threat at higher levels, and they're usually intelligent to a degree that belies "always chaotic evil" or similar moral handwaves. That they are often ugly cute is a further inducement to try to redeem them and/or keep them as pets.

My players have historically been addicted to this kind of thing, and I've learned to turn it into a plot hook. If the players are still too unimportant for the BBEG to intervene in their affairs, their adoptees can trip over the plot (sometimes literally) and get lost trying to follow it, at which point the party will hare off looking for them; if, on the other hand, they've been derailed from an extant plot, it's easy enough to have a plot-relevant villain arrange for their mascots and adoptees and other hangers-on to be kidnapped "to send a message." The party will naturally chase after them as before, only now you can have them discover the horribly mangled remains of the aforementioned cute monsters at an appropriately climactic moment, accompanied by some indication that they were casually tortured to death for whatever reason will infuriate the party most. (You might be tempted to have the villain have the adoptees turned into suicide weapons. While having their wards run happily towards the party only to explode mid-tearful-reunion-hug is certainly impactful, in my experience it leads into trying to get them raised first and foremost. Turning them into undead is somewhat safer in this regard, if you can pull off the reveal.)

In any event, the party will almost certainly carry on through to final victory out of revenge at that point. Problem solved.

I wouldn't consider hirelings and cohorts to be a derail in the first place. Or a slave, which I reckon is an accurate blanket term for the kind of mascot/pet that doesn't fall into those categories. It's a plothook as you say, but can also be a tool if the character has some skills or magic that the players lack. Mind you, my group isn't afraid to put NPCs in danger except in the campaign where we went "let's be good for once" in which case refugees are to be delivered to safety, not used as slave soldiers, so I can't say that I have a ton of experience with cherished mascots.

I'll also say that, among those plothooks, I'm not a fan of destroying what the players love by act of fiat. Whether in the game or out of it, punishing people for caring about things strikes me as a bit cruel. Life does that enough by itself.

[Kagus]

Where's that story about the stuffed tarrasque and the black dragon breath?

[delphonso]

I encourage players to get attached to NPCs. Generally, my games end up with three or four characters in supporting roles, while the heroes are center stage. To make it not take ridiculous time, or subtract from the plot, these characters often have easy, short-term goals and then basically insurmountable long term goals. I've had NPCs even tell the players "alright, I'm going to spend the next month in the library figuring out what to do next. Thanks, I really appreciate your help."

If players continue to mess with that NPC, they're being dicks. It's a little more difficult for the chaotic goblin, but the same premise can be figured out.

[Kagus]

It's a little more difficult for the chaotic goblin, but the same premise can be figured out.

"Alright, I'm going to spend the next month in this ditch figuring out how far up I can pick my nose. Thanks, I really appreciate your help"


I've had a character concept for a while that's basically just a disenfranchised noble Warlock, so he's got two loyal (for whatever reason) retainers and a petulant imp as side-characters to interact and squabble with. The idea was planned for a potential campaign a friend was thinking of putting together for me and someone else, so with only two PCs I thought it might be fun (and wouldn't require stealing the spotlight too much) to bring some NPCs along for inter-party roleplay.

[pikachu17]

You know, I wonder what a party could do with a cloak of invisibility that is only itself invisible, it doesn't make anything else invisible.

[Rolan7]

You know, I wonder what a party could do with a cloak of invisibility that is only itself invisible, it doesn't make anything else invisible.

Do you mean a shroud they have to hide behind?

[Egan_BW]

You know, I wonder what a party could do with a cloak of invisibility that is only itself invisible, it doesn't make anything else invisible.

Go streaking in the arctic.

[Mephisto]

Traps. Walking face first into an invisible cloak stretched across a doorway while you're focusing on your unconscious marks on the other side would probably surprise you into stumbling into a more lethal trap.

[delphonso]

It's a little more difficult for the chaotic goblin, but the same premise can be figured out.

"Alright, I'm going to spend the next month in this ditch figuring out how far up I can pick my nose. Thanks, I really appreciate your help".

That's important research and someone's got to do it.

[Cruxador]

It's a little more difficult for the chaotic goblin, but the same premise can be figured out.

"Alright, I'm going to spend the next month in this ditch figuring out how far up I can pick my nose. Thanks, I really appreciate your help".

That's important research and someone's got to do it.

So important that the international community assigned 70 million people to research it for four years around the beginning of the last century.

[Iduno]

The movie discussion thread has given me the terrible idea to have a series of NPC hackers in the same way Spinal Tap had a series of drummers.