Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

What is your preferred system?

Any D&D/D20
Shadowrun
World of Darkness
Palladium
Other (feel free to post about it)

Pages: 1 ... 613 614 [615] 616 617 ... 622

Author Topic: Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: COBRA!!!  (Read 835319 times)

delphonso

  • Bay Watcher
  • menaces with spikes of pine
    • View Profile
Re: Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: COBRA!!!
« Reply #9210 on: June 04, 2023, 08:51:37 pm »

Might be worth adding some moral complexity to the scenario. At least one victim who wasn't actually a murderer, and someone who perhaps survived an attack by the changeling and turned themself in, shaken by the apparent revenant attack.

delphonso

  • Bay Watcher
  • menaces with spikes of pine
    • View Profile
Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: COBRA!!!
« Reply #9211 on: June 19, 2023, 12:02:27 am »

So I'm working on a new campaign setting - my last one was a sunken world as Umbralee had punched a hole into the elemental plane of water in a land-grab. The setting was high-seas adventures, with pirates galore and a very long and arduous trip through the plane of fire. Anyway, the new one is just slowly being built in one-shots but I hit on an idea about the diminutive folk that you find in most RPGs.

Halflings are just short humans, but also come with a different personality/culture. Informed by Tolkien, that is usually explained by saying they're content folk, who like a simple life and good meal - but is mechanically expressed by...making them burglars?

Gnomes are either more like diminutive dwarves or elves, depending on the setting. The art for Pathfinder certainly makes them look more elven than dwarven, but stuff like the Svirfneblin make them seem more dwarven, less elven (assuming that deep gnomes are somehow connected to land gnomes.)

Goblins can pretty easily be explained as the little-orcs, and I'm sure there's options for plenty of other pint-sized enemies. If dragonborn are present, kobolds are pretty easy to fit into that too.

So I was thinking about something in the history of the world to explain this trend - and of course, rewriting what it means to be those things, in general. Either I would introduce a deity who amplified certain creatures, or who shrunk them down and change their essence -

Dragonborn is a good example, because you can go from a glory warrior-based society of dragonborn to a greedy, petty society of kobolds.

Humans are ambitious creatures, prone to setting up shop somewhere and fighting tooth and nail to preserve it. Halflings are not so stubborn - their short frames and spry muscles give them nearly endless endurance, coupled with their contentedness, they are the primary frontiersfolk, running miles across open desert and setting up a new settlement the first place that has shade and fresh water. Even seafarers sometimes find halflings on previously unknown islands, lounging under palm trees.

Dwarves are inventive but perfectionists, redesigning the entry-ways to their mountainhomes a hundred times over, while gnomes are more willing to drop a project and move on - often resulting in half-finished and completely unsafe magical items. A dwarven stronghold is a mess of perfect right angles, design and redesigned into uselessness, while a gnomish stronghold is half-smoothed, has tunnels running to nowhere, and often littered with piles of ash or half-operational automatons.

Orcs like to fight, but have the mentality of a fighter/soldier - they consider fights as battles in a greater war. Goblins are more reckless, seeking a glorious death and fight like every fight is their last. Both can be appealing mercenaries, depending on the job you want done, and how loudly.

Elves? Well they ate their diminutive folk.

If I'm making a new setting, I'd also like to add some new twists on the "races", especially taking them out of the pseudo-scientific taxonomy we usually work with, and instead shift them more into fantasy or fairy-tale. Dwarves and gnomes aren't born, but are rather carved from stone and gems, for example. Any ideas or sources for this are appreciated.

I'm also reading the rulebook for Gubat Banwa, and am fascinated by the use of violence as a divine force - violence being from the religious definition: extreme emotion spurring action. I might scrap the whole Law/Good/Chaos/Evil spectrum and just include violence - this fits well, already with my concepts of the differences between the full-size and diminutive folks.


« Last Edit: June 19, 2023, 12:05:15 am by delphonso »
Logged

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: COBRA!!!
« Reply #9212 on: June 19, 2023, 10:25:30 am »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yeah the alignment chart system only makes sense if your morality is PUREGOKU
« Last Edit: June 19, 2023, 12:50:27 pm by Loud Whispers »
Logged

scriver

  • Bay Watcher
  • City streets ain't got much pity
    • View Profile
Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: COBRA!!!
« Reply #9213 on: June 20, 2023, 07:01:31 am »

I think the alignment system works better if you consider Chaos to be more in the Warhammer way. I haven't read the original books they based it on, I struggle to remember rhetoric name right now but I mean the original sword and sorcery ones, but from what I gather in those it worked more like that.

Or if you replace Law and Chaos with Civilization and Primality.
Logged
Love, scriver~

Kagus

  • Bay Watcher
  • Olive oil. Don't you?
    • View Profile
Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: COBRA!!!
« Reply #9214 on: June 20, 2023, 07:21:19 am »

I sorta looked at it as a Society/Individual axis, with Good/Evil being Selfless/Selfish.

Lawful characters focus on the community and society as a whole, and thereby the rules and measures that bind it together for the good of the many. I say "good of the many" here, but Lawful Evil can and will absolutely abuse and manipulate those rules in order to get themselves into positions of power and safety, since they are Selfish. But they are still inherently focused on the society in those machinations, because if they disrupt the foundation too much then the tower they're climbing will collapse.

Chaotic Evil would just break it all down, take whatever they want from the rubble, and hide out in a cave somewhere alone. They don't care about society one way or the other, they just want what's best for themselves.

Similarly, Lawful Good will place the needs of the many over the needs of the few. This can mean that a few people get left out by the sweeping changes, but the "greater good" is appealed to. Chaotic Good cares more about the individual person. Chaotic Good might fight the system to let a kind old lady stay in her ramshackle home and prevent the area from being reclaimed for other purposes, but the Lawful Good one might try to help her move elsewhere so that the reclaimed area can go towards benefitting the city's populace as a whole.

NullForceOmega

  • Bay Watcher
  • But, really, it's divine. Divinely tiresome.
    • View Profile
Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: COBRA!!!
« Reply #9215 on: June 20, 2023, 09:02:09 am »

...
Logged
Grey morality is for people who wish to avoid retribution for misdeeds.

NullForceOmega is an immortal neanderthal who has been an amnesiac for the past 5000 years.

Rolan7

  • Bay Watcher
  • [GUE'VESA][BONECARN]
    • View Profile
Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: COBRA!!!
« Reply #9216 on: June 20, 2023, 10:03:37 am »

Oh yeah there's a thread specifically for alignment talk, even or especially when the alignment talk hasn't devolved into an argument.

Interesting stuff though.  And I *think* scriver may be thinking of Michael Moorcock's novels regarding Chaos.

Postedit to below: nice, moor for me
« Last Edit: June 20, 2023, 11:35:34 am by Rolan7 »
Logged
She/they
No justice: no peace.
Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

scriver

  • Bay Watcher
  • City streets ain't got much pity
    • View Profile
Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: COBRA!!!
« Reply #9217 on: June 20, 2023, 11:05:35 am »

I don't remember the name right now
Moorcock, scriver?

No thanks I'm full
Logged
Love, scriver~

Grim Portent

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: COBRA!!!
« Reply #9218 on: June 20, 2023, 01:43:52 pm »

Over time I've come around to a concept where the primal conflict is Chaos wants to unmake reality, Law wants to preserve and make it permanent, Good and Evil are more concerned with how to further either goal. The universe exists as a sort of consensus reality, a prison of sorts held together by common will, when enough things stop wanting to exist reality will dissolve back into raw undifferentiated potential and all things that are part of the world will be free to change and twist and weave new things again and again for eternity.

Chaotic Good wants to make people let go of reality to seek a higher state of being in the primordial chaos that came before creation, they want to be free from the prison of reality but are willing to take their time and not force others to go along with them before they're ready. Chaotic Evil wants to be free now and will torture others to break them of their desire to exist.

Lawful Good wants to make people reject the idea of transcendental existence, instead embracing things like reincarnation and heaven to further the existence of creation and prevent it's dissolution, by making people happy. A man who lives in Paradise has no reason to question the nature of truth or divinity. Lawful Evil seek to break people's wills such that they cannot dream of the transcendent goal of Chaos, keeping people miserable and scraping by so that they cannot spare thoughts towards metaphysics and enlightenment.

Chaotic/Lawful Neutral are the more morally grey middlegrounds between their Good/Evil counterparts. True Neutral, Neutral Evil and Neutral Good are largely unconcerned with the existence of reality, instead focusing on the now but not in such a way as to reject the philosophy of Chaos outright. Chaotic Good and Chaotic Evil are nominally allies with a shared goal, but disagree vehememtly enough on the methods that conflict between them still happens, as does conflict between their Lawful counterparts.
Logged
There once was a dwarf in a cave,
who many would consider brave.
With a head like a block
he went out for a sock,
his ass I won't bother to save.

Kagus

  • Bay Watcher
  • Olive oil. Don't you?
    • View Profile
Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: COBRA!!!
« Reply #9219 on: June 20, 2023, 04:36:29 pm »

Y'know... Nearly every campaign I've been in has been sorta... Hipstery, I guess. Counterculture. Trying to spice the "old, drab, routine" fantasy settings and playstyles, because that's what the industry is made of and what we've all experienced a hundred times before.

But that's just it... I haven't actually had those experiences. So now they're the fresh and appealing idea in my eyes.


I'd like to play a campaign sometime that's full-on classic fantasy nonsense. Full cheese. Sword and Sorcery, with a bit of Saturday morning cartoon thrown in. Just revel in the cliche and live it up.

...or maybe I've just been out of a game for so long that I'm starting to get weird abstinence-spawned delusions.

BlackFlyme

  • Bay Watcher
  • BlackFlyme cancels Work: Interrupted by bird.
    • View Profile
Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: COBRA!!!
« Reply #9220 on: June 20, 2023, 08:12:44 pm »

The only homebrew campaign I've played that lasted longer than a few sessions is about an entire town getting transported to a sort of opposite world where evil won a war against good a long time ago. Though even then it's a frankenstein of adventures that a friend of a friend in my DnD group started working on when he got into tabletop games back in AD&D.



I tried a one-shot of Legend of the Five Rings last weekend. Certainly different from what I'm used to, and we were using the optional rules to play on a grid-mat, which was a bit awkward. Out of everyone in the party, I was also perpetually on the edge of losing my composure, but Pelting Hail Style basically made me a shotgunner when enemies were grouped up.

I'm not sure if the GM knew how the dying rules worked, though. The villain lost a foot, a leg, their fingers, and an eye, and was still standing. Figuratively, I mean.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2023, 07:49:06 am by BlackFlyme »
Logged

delphonso

  • Bay Watcher
  • menaces with spikes of pine
    • View Profile
Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: COBRA!!!
« Reply #9221 on: June 21, 2023, 07:22:21 am »

Y'know... Nearly every campaign I've been in has been sorta... Hipstery, I guess. Counterculture. Trying to spice the "old, drab, routine" fantasy settings and playstyles, because that's what the industry is made of and what we've all experienced a hundred times before.

But that's just it... I haven't actually had those experiences. So now they're the fresh and appealing idea in my eyes.


I'd like to play a campaign sometime that's full-on classic fantasy nonsense. Full cheese. Sword and Sorcery, with a bit of Saturday morning cartoon thrown in. Just revel in the cliche and live it up.

...or maybe I've just been out of a game for so long that I'm starting to get weird abstinence-spawned delusions.

This was my original pitch for a campaign back before the High Seas adventure - I wanted to just make a Conan The Barbarian-style campaign of classic fantasy tropes, no surprises there.

But, of course, the characters would be humans from our world that slipped through a portal, because...hipster I guess.

scriver

  • Bay Watcher
  • City streets ain't got much pity
    • View Profile
Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: COBRA!!!
« Reply #9222 on: June 22, 2023, 12:54:24 pm »

I dunno rhe last part is pretty old dvhool too
Logged
Love, scriver~

Duuvian

  • Bay Watcher
  • Internet ≠ Real Life
    • View Profile
Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: COBRA!!!
« Reply #9223 on: June 23, 2023, 12:41:56 am »

But, of course, the characters would be humans from our world that slipped through a portal, because...hipster I guess.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardians_of_the_Flame

I read the first 3, I thought they were good. The first book is almost exactly what you described. Karl Culinane is basically a nerd placed in the body of a character like Conan.
Logged
FINISHED original composition:
https://app.box.com/s/jq526ppvri67astrc23bwvgrkxaicedj

Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
https://www.box.com/s/s3oba05kh8mfi3sorjm0 <-zguit

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: Dungeons & Dragons / PNP games thread: COBRA!!!
« Reply #9224 on: June 26, 2023, 06:55:26 am »

Y'know... Nearly every campaign I've been in has been sorta... Hipstery, I guess. Counterculture. Trying to spice the "old, drab, routine" fantasy settings and playstyles, because that's what the industry is made of and what we've all experienced a hundred times before.

But that's just it... I haven't actually had those experiences. So now they're the fresh and appealing idea in my eyes.

I'd like to play a campaign sometime that's full-on classic fantasy nonsense. Full cheese. Sword and Sorcery, with a bit of Saturday morning cartoon thrown in. Just revel in the cliche and live it up.

...or maybe I've just been out of a game for so long that I'm starting to get weird abstinence-spawned delusions.
It might be the cultural influence of popular 5e streams like CritRole or arguably even a product of 5e's ruleset being used for anything that isn't dungeon crawling. E.g. I had this same experience in my own gaming groups where anyone who used 5e, no matter what they were trying to go for, essentially ended up producing the exact same gaming table. I've played with DMs who wanted something obscenely grimdark, who wanted something epic fantasy, who wanted monster of the week power rangers, who wanted high power fantasies or down to earth sleuthing - it all pretty much always ended up being the same game. Hipstery table where people are making wise-quips, character deaths are nigh impossible and no one cares if they die as they'll be back, very little in the way of playing a role - characters are basically just video game avatars for the IRL person playing them.

Creativity being limited to a few spellcaster lists creates this sytem where the most creativity you can express for most characters will be in character creation. This causes players to gravitate towards creative and imaginative gimmicks, like a barbarian wizard / a wizard barbarian / a paladin atheist with no moral code / non-human characters whose sole identity is they are not humans / airship captains without airships, are some of the worst offenders I've seen to date. Coupled with the innate power of player characters spiralling rapidly into Greek-god tier without any narrative reason supplied, and the expectation that encounters will always be balanced to the party's strength by the DM, you get players who are dislocated from any emotional investment beyond quips and gimmicks.

I had this pervading conniption with one DM who wanted to run a low fantasy gaming session where the player characters would be stronger than your average man and skilled fighters, but still be easily threatened when encountering some mythical beast, with some bloodborne-esque tinged survival horror amidst a plagued out city. They were determined to try and adapt 5e to run this and were convinced it was easier to spend months trying to homebrew and houserule 5e into doing this sort of game instead of just taking a day to read the rules of a system designed to do exactly that, like Low Fantasy Gaming -_-

But lo and behold after much lobbying and months of failed attempts to get ppl to read the rules, the game was done with LFG rules. And it was a low fantasy horror where the PCs were powerful but threatened by mythical critters. No subversions or gimmicks
Pages: 1 ... 613 614 [615] 616 617 ... 622