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Author Topic: New 32 px tileset in the making  (Read 36769 times)

Dibujor

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Re: New tileset in the making... 24 or 32 px?
« Reply #105 on: June 09, 2015, 05:14:23 am »

Oh I understand now but I've never said the image must be "tiled". In fact, it just doesn't matter.

Yep, I had this doubt when I made the first workshop. Now I understand it's all the same when we talk about "coding" it.

But Japa is right, it matters styllistically, when you're thinking about composing the image. Imagine a dwarf in the center of the second image... it most likely will cover part of the two furnaces that should be considered, in fact impassable tiles.

That's why I hold off in going crazy with adding elements to the image (I could add crates, shelves, etc to every workshop to better convey the "feeling" of a workshop, but most likely would end up cluttering the image and clashing with the rest of the game)



We were talking about the technical side here.


Exactly, I must know what is technically possible to then think what is styllistically suitable
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 05:16:27 am by Dibujor »
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Dirst

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Re: New tileset in the making... 24 or 32 px?
« Reply #106 on: June 09, 2015, 09:27:39 am »

To preserve the style and retain the border, you might be able to squeeze the furnaces so that they don't intrude on the center tile's-worth of space.  Or if we're certain that creatures will have transparent backgrounds then maybe intrude in that area by a pixel.  When I made a bunch of Stonesense images for my custom workshops, I intentionally placed elements that look like they spanned tiles, but in a way that avoided running into a dwarf sprite on the active/center tile.
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Dibujor

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Re: New tileset in the making... 24 or 32 px?
« Reply #107 on: June 11, 2015, 08:58:40 am »

Buf, couple of intensive work days I've had.

To preserve the style and retain the border, you might be able to squeeze the furnaces so that they don't intrude on the center tile's-worth of space.  Or if we're certain that creatures will have transparent backgrounds then maybe intrude in that area by a pixel.  When I made a bunch of Stonesense images for my custom workshops, I intentionally placed elements that look like they spanned tiles, but in a way that avoided running into a dwarf sprite on the active/center tile.

Yep, I'd think (and ask) about what can be done. But I think I better wait for mifki to work on what and how things can be done before diving too much into changes that may or may not work in the end.  I did the workshops in advance for mifki to use them as tests. I'll rethink them when time arrives :).

Now, I have one question:

I know with twbt you can have different sized tilesets, and that there are two main sets you use to then override over them:
  • FONT which is the readable text, no graphic tiles and I'm thinking on making this 16x16, I don't think you really need more than that as that's a good font size
  • GRAPHIC_FONT Now, as I want the world generation and map to be consistent with the rest of the pack, and since the map doesn't use the overrides, the sensible thing to do is using this set for the map tiles, and then put the rest of the graphics as overrides, right?. I believe this is how DragondePlatino has organized gemset. Now, can this set be 16 or 24 px and then the overrides be 32x32?. I ask because even with 16x16 tiles you have to move around the map a lot, and not all the global map fits on screen so, I'm thinking 3x32 tiles will be waaaaay oversized?. I'm not sure you can have this set at one size and then the overrides at a bigger tile size so I better ask.

I'm going to start with this set so the tiles I make from now on are usable
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Max™

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Re: New tileset in the making... 24 or 32 px?
« Reply #108 on: June 11, 2015, 10:14:26 am »

Easier to avoid mismatches if the map tiles are the same size as overrides last I checked, so if there's a missed or new tile or situation where the map is used w/o overrides it remains as crisp.
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The VectorCurses+1 tileset strikes the square set and the severed part sails off in an arc!

PeridexisErrant

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Re: New tileset in the making... 24 or 32 px?
« Reply #109 on: June 11, 2015, 10:24:55 am »

Overrides will be scaled down to match the dimensions of the map tiles (GRAPHICS_FONT), which generally doesn't look good.  I'd suggest doing both at 32px square.  For the FONT, a similar size but non-square looks good.  Maybe 24x16?  Plenty of space to look good, clean multiples to match tiles up again, and a comfortable size even on high res displays.
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Dibujor

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Re: New tileset in the making... 24 or 32 px?
« Reply #110 on: June 11, 2015, 10:31:27 am »

I imagined that.  I forgot that whatever you put on GRAPHIC_FONT is what gets used as default if something goes wrong with any override.  Ok then 32 px for everything.

Mmmm,  I suppose you're right PeridexisErrant,  the important thing to reduce is the width anyway.  He, guess I'll be "stealing"  the curses 24x16 DragondePlatino made for Gemset :D
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Aydjile

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Re: New tileset in the making... 24 or 32 px?
« Reply #111 on: June 11, 2015, 10:40:02 am »

Dibujor! i wholeheartedly approve of this project! its very nice to see a new tileset who does not stick to those silly cartoonish style. after all - their world is a dark and grim place. have you decided a name for it yet?
combined with mifki's amazing work - i believe it will be the future of DF's visualisation. will keep my eyes for your  result with happy anticipation.

personally i would go for  24x24 in terms of practicality of monitor resolution. but of course i am all for HD version of 32x32!
also from player's perspective i would love to see tile representations of dwarfs themselves in full body, rather than just a head. full body icon would be able to deliver more information and character.

what do you think about phoebus tile assembler? that would also add lots of flexibility to your creations. and would you consider crenelated structure of walls? imho thats suits much better to dwarf's mentality of masonry.
http://i.imgur.com/oa8GC4n.jpg


best of luck and cheers!
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 11:54:03 am by Aydjile »
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Re: New tileset in the making... 24 or 32 px?
« Reply #112 on: June 11, 2015, 11:43:47 am »

32 looks better scaled down to 24 than 24 does scaled up to 32 and I'm interested to see what someone who is such a fan of spacefox as dibujor is does for dorfs.
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Engraved here is a rendition of an image of the Dwarf Fortress learning curve. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. It depicts an obsidian overhang which menaces with spikes of obsidian and tears. Carved on the overhang is an image of Toady One and the players. The players are curled up in a fetal position. Toady One is laughing. The players are burning.
The VectorCurses+1 tileset strikes the square set and the severed part sails off in an arc!

Dibujor

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Re: New tileset in the making... 24 or 32 px?
« Reply #113 on: June 11, 2015, 11:51:56 am »

Haha Aydjile,  I'm glad you like it so vehemently  ;D

Well, I really like those cartoonish tilesets myself.  In fact I'm helping as much as I can to complete spacefox.  But I understand what you're trying to say, and is true the world of dwarf fortress is a grim one. 

With this set I'm trying a more "realistic" approach (like obsidian, ironhand or Phoebus).

About the races...  I still haven't decided myself.  I've been trying to decide if I want big heads or more realistic proportions.  I think at this sizes, a big head shows more information than trying to spread characteristics through head  and body (spacefox dwarves are the most easy  to identify professions on) but on the other hand, going for proportional bodies is more realistic).  In fact you can see my doubts, one of the first tiles I did for this was an almost "big headed"  dorf .  It was a first draft for the dorfs for my set

I'll see.  What I have clear is that I'm not going to show different  proportions for different races, meaning all the races will fill the whole 32x32 tile, the dwarves won't be shorter than the elves.  You'd lose information doing that. And then what's the point if a goblet, a crown, a well and a furnace are all the same size as  your dwarves?  :P


« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 05:03:56 pm by Dibujor »
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easykiln

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Re: New tileset in the making... 24 or 32 px?
« Reply #114 on: June 11, 2015, 05:32:32 pm »

Considering this is a relatively realistic hd tileset, and it is still in its infancy, I do think it would be worth it to investigate ways to express material colours in a better way than just shading the entire tile. I know nothing about how tilesets work really but what popped up in my mind was a generated layer of colour placed under a varying opacity image.
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DragonDePlatino

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Re: New tileset in the making... 24 or 32 px?
« Reply #115 on: June 11, 2015, 05:34:21 pm »

There are many different approaches you could take to 32px tiles.

From what I've seen, I think most Dwarf Fortress players gravitate towards a style like Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup. Very gritty, western and realistically proportioned. The colors are quite dark and a serious tone is attempted overall.

For you, I think you might enjoy drawing in a style like Desktop Dungeons. The designs are cartoony and have big heads like in Spacefox, but they have a lot of details so they don't clash with more realistic tiles.

Finally, there's the 32x32 style I really like. Something like this mockup (which isn't a full game). You have bright colors, visible details and average proportions. I was introduced to roguelikes by Pokemon Mystery Dungeon so I've always been attached to this style.

Also, since you've decided on 32x32, I'd suggest you change the topic name. Try making a poll and ask people what style they would like the creature graphics to be in.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 05:54:51 pm by DragonDePlatino »
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LeoCean

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Re: New tileset in the making... 24 or 32 px?
« Reply #116 on: June 11, 2015, 06:13:54 pm »

Hmm if anything I think his design is going to be somewhat what he has already and somewhat like this.



But at the same time different after all it's what tempted him to do 32x. That's obsidians new graphics btw, he's busy irl sadly... Why rl comes between a man and his video games is beyond me.  :'(
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sic8

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Re: New tileset in the making... 24 or 32 px?
« Reply #117 on: June 11, 2015, 06:17:04 pm »

Hmm if anything I think his design is going to be somewhat what he has already and somewhat like this.

(pic)

But at the same time different after all it's what tempted him to do 32x. That's obsidians new graphics btw, he's busy irl sadly... Why rl comes between a man and his video games is beyond me.  :'(

I love that style. The subtle height differences of the races look great imho.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 06:18:53 pm by sic8 »
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Aydjile

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Re: New tileset in the making... 24 or 32 px?
« Reply #118 on: June 11, 2015, 06:18:21 pm »

his design

looks very appealing! especialy full figured humanoid. i am sure they gonna look even better in 32x32.
and look at the gems! the turquoise color. i would piss my beard if i see a warehouse full of them!
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 06:40:01 pm by Aydjile »
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sic8

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Re: New tileset in the making... 24 or 32 px?
« Reply #119 on: June 11, 2015, 06:29:52 pm »

I think a lot of what looks great about Dibujor's workshops and what was just posted above is how great the colours look in them. This is going to be lost by the game colourising the whole tile unfortunately. Hopefully mifki ends up coming up with a way for partial colourising!
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