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Author Topic: X-Com Chimera Squad  (Read 696386 times)

DolosusDoleus

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Re: X-Com 2: Et Elegit Sanguis Infectus
« Reply #6945 on: September 27, 2017, 05:47:22 pm »

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Chiefwaffles

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Re: X-Com 2: Et Elegit Sanguis Infectus
« Reply #6946 on: September 27, 2017, 06:03:44 pm »

Generally I'm okay with the writing in XCOM.
Except in the WotC story mission. The writing there is just pure cheese. I had to go see a nutritionist after that mission.

I like 2's characters, really. Enemy Unknown was fine, but it literally had a (near-)mad german scientist with the most stereotypical accent. Sweater Bradford I don't really think has a personality. Sure, Punished "Venom" Bradford is fairly stereotypical "gruff alcoholic" but he does have a personality.

Everywhere else in regards of theme though, Enemy Unknown is leaps and bounds ahead. I've mentioned this before, but it just does theme so much better. The game does actually have a solid, concrete theme. Enemy Within even had a theme. And it showed through the game. It was about brave (intentionally) action figure-like heroes protecting humanity against an unknown, scary alien menace, but with a subtle yet present subversion regarding what exactly will happen to humanity with the aliens' technology.
Whereas XCOM 2 is just everything but the kitchen sink. The enemy is even more cartoonishly evil with all sense of moral ambiguity lost. Hell, they could have some topics to raise without changing the story. Like what humanity will do when rebuilding. The cloned ADVENT soldiers remove any sort of moral elements in the actual resistance part. Your tech and soldiers' abilities (especially in WotC) all feel extremely action movie-like. It just feels like a failed mish-mash theme-wise.


While I still really like XCOM 2 and think it's a better game than Enemy Unknown, I still maintain that they really messed up on the theming.
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Egan_BW

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Re: X-Com 2: Et Elegit Sanguis Infectus
« Reply #6947 on: September 27, 2017, 06:07:14 pm »

Yeah, I really kinda like the whole "action figures in a horror movie" theme EU has. 2 seems like they were going for something interesting, but kinda failed.
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Mephansteras

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Re: X-Com 2: Et Elegit Sanguis Infectus
« Reply #6948 on: September 27, 2017, 06:32:46 pm »

Yeah, I really kinda like the whole "action figures in a horror movie" theme EU has. 2 seems like they were going for something interesting, but kinda failed.

Yeah, 2 is fun mechanically but really lacks a good theme. It's much too kitchen sink.
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umiman

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Re: X-Com 2: Et Elegit Sanguis Infectus
« Reply #6949 on: September 28, 2017, 02:13:31 am »

Yeah, I really kinda like the whole "action figures in a horror movie" theme EU has. 2 seems like they were going for something interesting, but kinda failed.

Yeah, 2 is fun mechanically but really lacks a good theme. It's much too kitchen sink.
I would agree. I actually thought EU was kinda okay-ish until the expansion pack. Then it became god-tier.

I'm hard pressed to think of a reason why I prefer XCOM: EW to XCOM 2, but I do. It probably is the giant robots with terminator voices and rocket punch though.

EnigmaticHat

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Re: X-Com 2: Et Elegit Sanguis Infectus
« Reply #6950 on: September 28, 2017, 03:51:14 am »

MECs were visceral.  I don't usually feel pure joy, but I did the first time I super-punched a sectoid into an exploding car.  EXALT missions were also utter madness, for better or worse.  Personally I prefer WoTC to EW, I enjoyed EW but I never finished even a single campaign in it.

Going to have to agree on Xcom 2's style.  They have a lot of good stuff, they just didn't keep it consistent what the resistance style is and the alien style.  I did feel the horror theme come through in the base game.  Seeing a Andromedon unspoiled was legitimately spooky; it was like seeing a reverse astronaut, this thing carrying an alien environment with it and I had no idea what it was or what it would do.  The Codex *could* have been horrific as well, they just didn't quite capture... something.  They clearly wanted the whole "moves just a little wrong" thing going on, and they had it, it just.  I don't know, it didn't come together.

Then WoTC comes across and suddenly we have Mad Max on Mars.  WoTC's style for me is about cat and mouse on a wrecked world.  Creeping through an underground tunnel to hunt down an alien commander hiding in corner, or trying to fight through open terrain while pinned down by the hunter, that felt very "Xcom 2" whatever that means.  But then in WoTC, the pristine city centers feel out of place, and the chosen fights get kind of derpy, and the style falls apart.

TBH tho, the stylistic soup never hurt my enjoyment of the game.  If I had to summarize Xcom 2's style, it would be the feeling that you've lost control of your world and its been replaced by something strange.  Its just... eerie seeing alien plants on Earth.  And a lot of the aliens evoke the idea of something so advanced, so transhuman that its beyond comprehension.  And so you're fighting dataghosts and alien-human hybrids and the levitating upper torso of a statue, inside a ruined city while knee deep in zombies.  And its like, where's Earth?  I imagine its a feeling similar to what some elderly people feel about the internet and rapidly social change...
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Parsely

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Re: X-Com 2: Et Elegit Sanguis Infectus
« Reply #6951 on: September 28, 2017, 09:58:38 am »

newCOM 2's visual design is a mess, newCOM 1's is boring. With few exceptions, I hate the voice acting, dialogue, and characters in both of the newCOM games. The setting is extremely weak and even contradicts itself in at least one place: Bradford says "[the aliens] don't need an infiltration unit anymore" when you meet the Viper, as a justification for why it's not a Thin Man anymore (does that even need to be justified or explained at all?), but they have the fucking Faceless so what the hell Bradford?
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ZeroGravitas

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Re: X-Com 2: Et Elegit Sanguis Infectus
« Reply #6952 on: September 28, 2017, 10:38:21 am »

newCOM 2's visual design is a mess, newCOM 1's is boring. With few exceptions, I hate the voice acting, dialogue, and characters in both of the newCOM games. The setting is extremely weak and even contradicts itself in at least one place: Bradford says "[the aliens] don't need an infiltration unit anymore" when you meet the Viper, as a justification for why it's not a Thin Man anymore (does that even need to be justified or explained at all?), but they have the fucking Faceless so what the hell Bradford?

the voice acting and named characters prevented me from liking it at all. you lose all the terror and horror of the unfamiliar when youre getting canned responses from your buddy bradford. literally substituting his reactions for your own.
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Re: X-Com 2: Et Elegit Sanguis Infectus
« Reply #6953 on: September 28, 2017, 02:55:38 pm »

So, finally finished a vanilla commander run recently (I did it on ironman because I can't help it, I have no self control when if reloading is an option).  Final mission was a breeze with two well trained psi-ops and a sniper and grenader with serial.

Been trying to get into LW2, but... I dunno, I've put in more time just trying to understand how you win/don't lose the strategic layer than actually playing, and I really hate those stupid patrol bot enemies in the early going.

Was anyone satisfied by that mod at all?  It seems like a lot of trouble just figuring out which missions you're supposed to skip, and even then with all the options your given with resistance havens seems to boil down to set everyone on intel but delay liberating regions as long as possible, sell everything you get on the black market and rush to the victory stats screen before gatekeepers and sectopods show up on missions.  I feel like I'm complaining about stuff that I haven't even experienced in the mod yet (Best run got about a month in before I ran out of troops), but I'm not sure I feel like playing on if I need a mission spreadsheet to know when and where I'm supposed to do anything.
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umiman

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Re: X-Com 2: Et Elegit Sanguis Infectus
« Reply #6954 on: September 28, 2017, 03:18:05 pm »

So, finally finished a vanilla commander run recently (I did it on ironman because I can't help it, I have no self control when if reloading is an option).  Final mission was a breeze with two well trained psi-ops and a sniper and grenader with serial.

Been trying to get into LW2, but... I dunno, I've put in more time just trying to understand how you win/don't lose the strategic layer than actually playing, and I really hate those stupid patrol bot enemies in the early going.

Was anyone satisfied by that mod at all?  It seems like a lot of trouble just figuring out which missions you're supposed to skip, and even then with all the options your given with resistance havens seems to boil down to set everyone on intel but delay liberating regions as long as possible, sell everything you get on the black market and rush to the victory stats screen before gatekeepers and sectopods show up on missions.  I feel like I'm complaining about stuff that I haven't even experienced in the mod yet (Best run got about a month in before I ran out of troops), but I'm not sure I feel like playing on if I need a mission spreadsheet to know when and where I'm supposed to do anything.
I like Long War 2's class system, huge enemy variation, and new tech.

I hate everything else about it. Good thing you can get all the above in standalone mods without having to go through Long War itself.

EnigmaticHat

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Re: X-Com 2: Et Elegit Sanguis Infectus
« Reply #6955 on: September 28, 2017, 03:31:22 pm »

We talked about that in this thread... geez, it has to have been a year ago?  Basically the mod had a problem making its systems transparent to the user, and none of us knew how anything worked.  A lot of people also seemed to agree that the optimal strategy wasn't fun.  After that one conversation discussion of LW2 mostly dropped off, but I think there's about... 5 people in the meantime that have been enjoying playing it and regularly post about it.

Its funny, part of what makes the base game vaguely annoying is that they explain everything 3 ways (voiceover, tooltip, popup), but the game needs that because (as someone was saying a few posts back) nucom is its own entirely new thing.  I grew up on Fire Emblem and Advanced Wars yet this game was mostly alien to me, imagine being the average console gamer who mainly plays Madden and an FPS of choice.  I don't mean any insult by that; its just that without the spot-on interface nucom could have been frustrating to play even as an experienced gamer, much less casual one.  Imagine if your first nucom was WoTC and it didn't have all the tooltips and voicovers, it would be a nightmare.

I think the LW2 devs got caught up in the modern trend where the wiki is the manual.  They missed the bit where that's a terrible trend that people put up with because they want to play games like Terraria and DF.  I think Valve in particular has done a lot of damage there; they have 2 successful esports that basically require mods and wikis to fully expose the game mechanics, and one failed esport that ALSO has a lot of important numbers and interactions buried away.  Sadly OW also seems to be going down that path, with things like which ults and abilities are disabled by which CC becoming more and more opaque with every patch.
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Mephansteras

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Re: X-Com 2: Et Elegit Sanguis Infectus
« Reply #6956 on: September 28, 2017, 03:59:44 pm »

My main issue with Long War was the sheer number of enemies you'd face as the game went on. Even when you've got a good squad that can handle most things, having 20+ enemies on the map makes for long, long missions. Couple that with the sheer number of missions you go on and it goes from being a nice extended version of XCOM over the line to just way too long and tedious.

Really what I want out of XCOM is a curve where the beginning of the game is extended out and the end game is shortened.

I haven't quite finished my initial WotC Commander campaign yet, simple because all I'm doing is going through the story missions to end the game. I have all the tech, I've more or less conquered the map, I'm just slogging through missions I don't care about as the clock runs down to me being able to do the final missions. Partly my fault, since I kept prioritizing other things over the shadow chamber stuff. Still, I kind of wish I could just rush the end at this point without having to spend a month or two in-game to get there.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: X-Com 2: Et Elegit Sanguis Infectus
« Reply #6957 on: September 28, 2017, 05:37:59 pm »

What I hate about the endgame is you end up with all these soldiers you're telling yourself these little stories about, and all this cool shit to use, and you know its just leading up to picking 6 of them to do a boring scripted mission that's easy until the overly difficult final fight.

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Aklyon

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Re: X-Com 2: Et Elegit Sanguis Infectus
« Reply #6958 on: September 30, 2017, 10:21:21 am »

I shall interrupt the complaintsfest to note someone has ported Grimy's Loot mod to WOTC.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: X-Com 2: Et Elegit Sanguis Infectus
« Reply #6959 on: September 30, 2017, 02:40:57 pm »

I will say that all my complaints about WoTC come from missed opportunities and carryovers from previous games.  Nothing about WoTC that I dislike is NEW to WoTC.  Just about everything is better.

Challenge mode is lovely.  Sometimes I don't have time to sit down and remember what everyone's names are and what the plan was.  It captures the toybox feel of multiplayer without all the problems multiplayer has.
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"T-take this non-euclidean geometry, h-humanity-baka. I m-made it, but not because I l-li-l-like you or anything! I just felt s-sorry for you, b-baka."
You misspelled seance.  Are possessing Draignean?  Are you actually a ghost in the shell? You have to tell us if you are, that's the rule
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