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Author Topic: The channel of doom, an early experience  (Read 3693 times)

Deathworks

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The channel of doom, an early experience
« on: August 04, 2007, 06:57:00 am »

Hi!

My latest fortress is still extremely young, just in its third year, but there have already been some interesting events. Some of them are centered around what I am about to call the channel of doom.

I usually have my fortresses grow slowly, starting with fishing and plant gathering food production and eventually reaching the underground river in the second or third year, maybe. This time, I wanted to do things a bit differently, so I decided to make a channel from the surface river to a cave I dug out in the mountain next to my fortress. Putting in a floodgate and linking it to a lever, I thought I was all set.

Unfortunately, I had forgotten that a channel filled with water could also be instrumental in the creation of a permaflood. So, I opened the flood gate then closed it - and nothing happened. The farming area was permaflooded. Fortunately, I had put several safety channels in place, so only that small extra cavern was lost.

After that disaster, I decided to return to my old habits. But in the second year, I figured I should get rid of that stupid permaflood. The only possibility I saw was a cave-in. So, I sent in a miner to dig out more of the cave.

However, I made another stupid mistake forgetting that permafloods are still expanding. Fortunately there was another layer of channels to safe me from certain doom. But the miner decided that when the water came he should step forward instead of going back to the dry tiles behind him.

The result: The permaflooded area increased by a few tiles and I had a dead miner and a precious pick at an unreachable location. These things really annoyed me, especially since an encounter between a hunter and a pack of wolves earlier has prompted me to create my first general tomb, so there was a coffin already waiting. And picks are valuable, too.

So, while ordering the creation of some copper spare picks, I sent the remaining miner in there to dig out enough space to create a cave-in. The problem was, penetrating the permaflooded area would have been a bother and the area within the mountain where the channel ran wasn't very long.

I dug out an area that seemed big enough, but because the mountain side was uneven, I wasn't really sure. Actually, I already planned on how to breach the permaflooded area in order to get a bigger area, when finally, after long minutes of waiting, I "heard the deep rumbling from the mountain". With new optimism I waited, and finally, there was the cave-in I had hoped for.

I scrolled over to the site - and there was a dwarf right next to it!!!! A mechanic, as I learned from the announcements, probably out to get some of the stones from the newly excavated area (why he wanted to go there is beyond me). It was too late, of course, the dust was there and the mechanic got knocked unconscious. What was even worse, he got knocked right into the channel!!! Needless to say he drowned within a few seconds never regaining consciousness.

There was one positive thing: The cave-in did destroy the permaflood, so my dwarves were able to bury the rotting miner and retrieve the pick. The negative thing was, of course, that now I had one more dead dwarf and the mechanic was in a location that was unreachable (you can't block outside channels, so I can't unflood it).

Well, I tried all I could to retrieve the corpse, building bridges next to it and even one directly on top of him (but they wouldn't build that one, only stand there doing nothing, not even cancelling the job), but it was no use. This also taught me that outside channels do not freeze, even if the outside river is frozen solid (^_^;;

But the fun at that channel wasn't over yet. Shortly thereafter, I learned that racoons visit that map. Fun thing was, the first interesting stuff they saw were the clothes of the drowned mechanic in the channel. Another lesson I learned is that racoons can't swim in that game, at least not good enough to plunder. So, I had three racoons standing on the side of the channel and on the bridges next to corpse, looking greedily at the stuff they couldn't reach. I could have ignored them if their presence didn't scare any dwarves who wanted to leave my fortress since they were too close to the main entrance. So I drafted a random dwarf and stationed him at the bridge. Thus, the mechanic's corpse got company of a racoon corpse as one of the racoons fell into the channel, dying.

A little while later, another band of racoons tried to rob the channel. the corpse had already rooten away, but the clothes were still there. This time, before I really noticed, some dogs some immigrant has brought there had decided to put an end to the menace. The end result was one more racoon decaying in the channel along with a pet dog also rotting away in that channel (note that it is always that single tile where the mechanic drowned, because it is surrounded by bridges). Of course, the remaining racoons also died, but they didn't end up in the channel.

So, we are in the third year, the clothes are still in the channel which is still flooded. I am wondering what will happen next there.

BTW, once I am finished trapping my main entrance, I think I will fill the former farm- to- be with stonefall traps in case I get some curious siegers.

I hope this is somewhat entertaining for some.

Deathworks

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Haedrian

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Re: The channel of doom, an early experience
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2007, 09:14:00 am »

*smiles* upload pictures to the maparchive please, I'm curious now
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Deathworks

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Re: The channel of doom, an early experience
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2007, 05:36:00 am »

Hi!

Oh! I am not that much into backing up saves (fortunately, I have not encountered any crashes yet, and the saves are a bit on the big side, aren't they?), so I could only make a current shot. There may be a bit of bones still around (by now, another racoon died there. Well, my personal computer is offline (I am using the university's to go onto the internet), so it will take me a while to make the shot. Mmmhh, I guess I could simply play a little longer and hope for some more racoons to come. If that is alright with you, I guess I could prepare the shot by tomorrow (today, I can't be online after this sitting, because the university closes early on Sundays (T_T) ).

By now, I have removed the bridge task for the bridge over the clothes because that bridge is simply not being built.

As I said, that place still seems good at attracting racoons, especially now that I finally moved all my stockpiles into the fortress itself.

The channel created another problem for me, though. Probably because of the cave-in, there are several pieces of different types of stone in the channel. I had to re-task several bridge building jobs a few times because stones I designated were not reachable, so now I have put my mason on block-making duty all the time and use only stone blocks for any construction orders.

Too bad the clothes don't attract kobold thieves ... but then again, I guess some bolts (!) are more valuable than spider silk clothes :) :) :)

Deathworks

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Deathworks

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Re: The channel of doom, an early experience
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2007, 06:18:00 am »

Hi!

I uploaded the map at the map-archive. However, having to do also some other stuff, I forgot to write out the essential information about it. I will correct that later.

Anyhow, the link is:
http://mkv25.net/dfma/viewmap.php?view_poiid=942

I took this shot during the following year when another band of three racoons visited. You can see them on the bridge (you only see 2 'r's because two racoons are standing on the same tile).

Having handed out private rooms, I now get the occassional "Cancels Store Owned Item: Item Unreachable" since the surviving dwarves seemingly decided to claim most of the clothes for themselves.

As far as I can tell, there is no way for me to unflood that channel, or is there?

Deathworks

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Shadowlord

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Re: The channel of doom, an early experience
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2007, 12:18:00 pm »

It is possible to empty that channel, and it is possible to destroy a permaflood without a cave-in. You use the same methods for both. There are two ways:

1. Flood them with magma.
2. Generate an anti-flood and allow it to pass into the permaflood and/or channel(s).

#2 is the easier one to do, and safer, once you know how. So, I'm just going to explain that one. Essentially, what you need is a floodgate attached to a water source, another floodgate next to it to release water, and a tunnel from that floodgate to outside. Just make sure the water from the second floodgate can't double back and hit the cave river to cause a permaflood itself. Both floodgates should be hooked to a lever.

To make things safer, you should have the end of the tunnel blocked with another floodgate (and a door which you can lock, if it's a 2 wide tunnel), which is hooked to a separate lever.

What you do is turn on the floodgates next to the river, and wait for the tunnel to fill with water. Once it is filled, close those floodgates and then open the floodgate at the end of the tunnel - But make sure the first floodgates have fully closed before opening the outside ones. The longer your tunnel is, the easier this is (You need to get the outside floodgates open before the anti-flood reaches them). What happens then is that an anti-flood is generated at your feeder floodgates because the flood is, at the time, not connected to any other water sources. Then when the outside floodgate is opened, the flood expands to touch your channels or permaflooded areas. Meanwhile, the antiflood is flying through the tunnel, and it will eventually reach the channels or permaflooded areas.

If you build this exactly as I've explained it, with the outside flooder not connecting to any outside channels, you can essentially hit the entire outside with an anti-flood.

Also, if you had somehow managed to flood your entire fort, and the flood extended to your safety channels at the entrance, if the antiflooder's initial flood managed to reach the safety channels, the antiflood would pass into the fortress through the safety channels, destroying that permaflood as well. (Of course if you flooded your entire fort, you probably wouldn't be able to get any dwarves to the levers to activate the anti-flooder)

[ August 07, 2007: Message edited by: Shadowlord ]

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Deathworks

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Re: The channel of doom, an early experience
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2007, 05:02:00 am »

Hi!

Thank you for the advice, but I don't think I am that good in the game yet to make sure that this really works out. And since the channel is only a minor annoyance (as I said, I simply use blocks for building to avoid the sunken rocks) I rather put up with it then risk destroying what has been a quite nice fortress thus far (I am determined to see my first siege in it as well as my first children born there become adults - maybe I will even be lucky enough to see my first dwarves die of old age, but that is still far away, I guess (^_^;; ). I am more than happy that I was able to get the perma-flood out of that cave.

In addition, I currently also don't have the manpower to do something like that. Somehow, my dwarves are constantly busy. I think I did too much farming and thus will not grow plump helmet next year (my food stocks are more than sufficient).

Deathworks

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Pitchblack

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Re: The channel of doom, an early experience
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2007, 08:53:00 am »

if you want to see dwarfs die of old age then you can be prepared to spend several months waiting, because dwarfs die at around twice our age maybea more, and most forts barely last long enough to see a cow die.
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Deathworks

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Re: The channel of doom, an early experience
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2007, 11:38:00 am »

Hi!

Well, the waiting will be my biggest problem. I think people mentioned that dwarves had life expectancies of 150-170 years. If each day I played I get one year ahead, that would be some five months. Of course, there is the factor that the initial seven dwarves were already beyond the age of children, so I may hit it at least two weeks earlier (BTW, I can't seem to be able to find out how old a dwarf is).

As far as the fortress life expectancy is concerned, I am not that much worried. I prefer slow growth. Currently I am in early autumn 1055 (haven't had time to play the last days) with a fortress that started in a virgin world (1051, right?). I have built a lone bridge across the underground river and exploited a small copper vein there, but beyond that, no work beyond the underground river has been done. The chasm has not been reached yet. I mean, just look at the map I uploaded, that fortress hasn't grown in width in that year. I think I only continued work on the rooms for the mason guild representative and the trade minister. I am not really intent on getting a king, so I figure that fortress can very well grow quite old.

Deathworks

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