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Author Topic: Melee vs Ranged  (Read 4038 times)

SupremeSandwich

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Melee vs Ranged
« on: July 05, 2015, 12:53:48 am »

I think that extremely skilled melee fighters should be able to parry bolts and arrows midflight
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coleslaw35

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Re: Melee vs Ranged
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2015, 12:58:43 am »

They do.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Melee vs Ranged
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2015, 09:44:54 am »

Yeah, some of my best combat reports are from the moment the champion finally turns up on the battlefield shrugging off bolts and arrows with shield and axe.
Up until that point it's been amateurish tongue grabbing, biting and minor body parts scattered around. Then suddenly it's 'the axemaster blocks a spear with his shield, bats a bolt out of the air with his axe, swipes the head off a goblin with the return stroke and kicks a troll in the lower body which explodes into gore.
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coleslaw35

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Re: Melee vs Ranged
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2015, 02:20:23 pm »

Yeah, some of my best combat reports are from the moment the champion finally turns up on the battlefield shrugging off bolts and arrows with shield and axe.
Up until that point it's been amateurish tongue grabbing, biting and minor body parts scattered around. Then suddenly it's 'the axemaster blocks a spear with his shield, bats a bolt out of the air with his axe, swipes the head off a goblin with the return stroke and kicks a troll in the lower body which explodes into gore.

Glorious.
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Melee vs Ranged
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2015, 06:09:16 pm »

I had a wrestler literally just grab a bolt from the air and stab someone with it, right in the left eye, and twist. This was the same archer that shot him. I guess he was pretty pissed about being shot at.
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SupremeSandwich

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Re: Melee vs Ranged
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2015, 02:37:32 am »

I meant with their weapon (ala the witcher) which would make a weapon no shield or two weapon character more viable
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Melee vs Ranged
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2015, 02:53:32 am »

They do.
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Naryar

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Re: Melee vs Ranged
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2015, 03:05:48 am »

They already do.

Elagn

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Re: Melee vs Ranged
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2015, 01:22:56 pm »

This suggestion has already been implimented. What they need now is for ranged combat to be improved so it is actualy effectual, and so the soldiers can understand what they are supposed to be doing with ranged weapons.
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NJW2000

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Re: Melee vs Ranged
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2015, 06:24:26 pm »

And for ranged fighting to make any sense at all in adventure mode.
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Zammer990

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Re: Melee vs Ranged
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2015, 09:18:58 am »

This suggestion has already been implimented. What they need now is for ranged combat to be improved so it is actualy effectual, and so the soldiers can understand what they are supposed to be doing with ranged weapons.
The simplest fix for archery, especially in adventure more, but also fortress mode. Is the idea of shooting, then abandoning/sheathing the crossbow/bow, and use other weapons range-appropriate. Simple right? /s.
As it stands, dwarves always "reload" a crossbow, as in it can be fired again as soon as the shooter's turn has elapsed (a really long time, esp. in adventure mode). They also do the same for bows, which is just an odd nuance of the system.
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NJW2000

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Re: Melee vs Ranged
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2015, 09:27:31 am »

Yeah, this has killed me, and means my bow/melee tactics are unusable. You should also be able to string/load stuff as you run, like sheathing/unsheathing.
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Elagn

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Re: Melee vs Ranged
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2015, 01:14:41 pm »

Yes, the big thing that is needed is the difference between loading and shooting. Especialy for crossbows. Bows need to be made to be able to shoot faster, but be somewhat weaker and harder to learn, while crossbows need to be much slower to load, but have stronger shots and be much faster to learn to be accurate with.

The other big thing still needed with ranged combat is the ability to aim at a specific body part, and for the chance to hit be dependant on the location and size of the part, and random factors. This could bring ranged to about on par with melee.
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NJW2000

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Re: Melee vs Ranged
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2015, 01:17:29 pm »

I mainly do my ranged stuff on sasquatches, and have given up any hope of using it in a real battle, for reasons of danger.
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Zammer990

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Re: Melee vs Ranged
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2015, 03:01:54 pm »

Yes, the big thing that is needed is the difference between loading and shooting. Especialy for crossbows. Bows need to be made to be able to shoot faster, but be somewhat weaker and harder to learn, while crossbows need to be much slower to load, but have stronger shots and be much faster to learn to be accurate with.

The other big thing still needed with ranged combat is the ability to aim at a specific body part, and for the chance to hit be dependant on the location and size of the part, and random factors. This could bring ranged to about on par with melee.
Physically, the power of tension based ranged weapons is largely based on design; a large battlefield crossbow, using a "goat's foot", or a windlass, could be tremendously powerful, but could take up to a minute to load. A longbow for hunting took a decently built man to use effectively, while a war bow took peak athletic ability (of the middle ages) to use effectively. The fact DF bows don't tire their wielders, or suffer from weak wielders makes them behave more similarly to a gun, where the fire rate, and strength is determined entirely by how fast you can reload it, and strength is constant (skills affect the power of a bow AFAIK, but that's more of a stopgap to make bows' usefulness scale with skill).

A squad of dwarves could run at a goblin party, shoot 10 high-powered, long range shots, then close to melee to finish them off. Or bowmen could shoot their high power shots a long way, and when the enemy closes, or their arms get tired, retreat and let melee carry on. The lack of friendly fire, while helpful, allows you currently to send in an army of melee troops, an in the midst of the fight, have marksdwarves ping shots into the crowd, only ever wounding the enemy.
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