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Author Topic: Two Fold C9++: (3/15) Town Victory: Mutual KO - no replacement after all  (Read 20836 times)

Comrade Shamrock

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Re: Two Fold C9++: (15/15) Day 1 wears on! - 0 replacements or more needed
« Reply #225 on: August 24, 2015, 12:25:42 pm »

Varee:
Well it was more of a prompt for you to go do something, so any plans?

roo:
Are we going to get anything meaningful out of you?

unvote

Teneb

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Re: Two Fold C9++: (15/15) Day 1 wears on! - 0 replacements or more needed
« Reply #226 on: August 24, 2015, 03:41:36 pm »

It seems that after that first bout of aggression, most of us have kinda slacked off on it... I still don't see anything to suspicious.
So what are you going to do about it?

Also, forgot who asked Dampe and the other guy (forgot name) what they would do if they were scum, there's really no way for them to answer that. If what they say happens, they would look extremely guilty, so if they're town, that's an easy lynch for either mafia group. And if they are mafia, they could just as easily avoid it.
So as the newbie giving people advice, don't answer that question. If you even see the post.
Why were you so worried about how Dampe and "the other guy" (RedMage (tip: go back and search in these cases, it helps.) might look?
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Arcvasti

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Re: Two Fold C9++: (15/15) Day 1 wears on! - 0 replacements or more needed
« Reply #227 on: August 24, 2015, 04:10:19 pm »

Kilakan: I'm not entirely sure that's a fair assessment. The reason roo voted The Moonlit Shadow was to try to tie up the votecount and not be lynched because they were going to die in a few hours before FallacyofUrist suggested extending the day. That could be a scum move or more simply an "I don't want to die" move. I'm not really disagreeing with you, but using self-preservation as a scumtell strikes me as somewhat silly.

That said:

Unvote fillipk

Honestly, I'm going to invoke Hanlon's Razor here. I find it more likely that they're just new to the game and kinda defensive then that they're actually scum.

Voting roo

If putting roo in a life-or-death situation will evoke more evidence one way or another, I'm applying a pressure vote to them to make them defend themselves again. If their defense is inadequate, I'll keep it on. Plus it feels like a fairer lynch then fillipk or The Moonlit Shadow because they're both new and thus have that as an excuse/justification. roo, however, doesn't have that going for him.


General reminder, we have two opposing scum teams here both intent on annihilating the other. For those scum, scumhunting could become an excellent strategy since they have the advantage of knowing who's on their side and using the town to lynch their competitors both garners them trust and eliminates dangerous opposition. For those of us used to one-scum-faction mafia or for those new to the game, this might be an important concept.
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kilakan

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Re: Two Fold C9++: (15/15) Day 1 wears on! - 0 replacements or more needed
« Reply #228 on: August 24, 2015, 04:19:23 pm »

Kilakan: I'm not entirely sure that's a fair assessment. The reason roo voted The Moonlit Shadow was to try to tie up the votecount and not be lynched because they were going to die in a few hours before FallacyofUrist suggested extending the day. That could be a scum move or more simply an "I don't want to die" move. I'm not really disagreeing with you, but using self-preservation as a scumtell strikes me as somewhat silly.
Maybe it's changed since I last played, but 'I don't want to die' used to be a pretty big scumtell, since town didn't have that major of a reason to fear death.  It was more important to scum hunt with whatever time you have, instead of cowering and trying to tie votes in fear of the noose.

The reason being here;Town can die at night to mafia, SK, ect.
-Mafia can only die during the day to lynchs.

Town only have the day to make the most of their time, and may very well be cut apart during the night.  So fearing a mis-guided lynch is less important than say, finding the proper target with the time you have.  Tieing the vote so you can go on to hide/dodge the noose instead of active-hunting is a pretty large scumtell.  Especially in a game with no 'majority insta-lynch' so you really have no reason to try and 'tie' a vote.
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Two Fold C9++: (15/15) Day 1 wears on! - 0 replacements or more needed
« Reply #229 on: August 24, 2015, 05:17:53 pm »

roo, you need to step up your game if you want to avoid the lynch today.
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The Moonlit Shadow

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Re: Two Fold C9++: (15/15) Day 1 wears on! - 0 replacements or more needed
« Reply #230 on: August 24, 2015, 05:26:13 pm »

@Kilakan
Mafia can also die from night kills from the other mafia.
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Dampe

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Re: Two Fold C9++: (15/15) Day 1 wears on! - 0 replacements or more needed
« Reply #231 on: August 24, 2015, 05:38:21 pm »

I vote for not Dampe.
I want to live, dammit. ;_;
I'm not a mafioso. This, I promise on my gentleman's honor.
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Two Fold C9++: (15/15) Day 1 wears on! - 0 replacements or more needed
« Reply #232 on: August 24, 2015, 06:00:43 pm »

I hypothesize that logic is directly proportional to lack of noobyness.
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Teneb

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Re: Two Fold C9++: (15/15) Day 1 wears on! - 0 replacements or more needed
« Reply #233 on: August 24, 2015, 06:04:04 pm »

I hypothesize that logic is directly proportional to lack of noobyness.
Not the case. Roo is certainly not a newbie, but is still the subforum version of LSP.
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Two Fold C9++: (15/15) Day 1 wears on! - 0 replacements or more needed
« Reply #234 on: August 24, 2015, 06:05:51 pm »

I'm going to confess I have no clue who or what LSP is.
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Teneb

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Re: Two Fold C9++: (15/15) Day 1 wears on! - 0 replacements or more needed
« Reply #235 on: August 24, 2015, 06:12:40 pm »

I'm going to confess I have no clue who or what LSP is.
Lord Slowpoke
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What if “slammed in the ass by dead philosophers” is actually the thing which will progress our culture to the next step?
Quote from: Loud Whispers
Does a Laconian believe they descend from Achilles? Does an anon believe a greentext happened? Does a child believe in air? We choose the fake news we want. The eternal memri.tv

flabort

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Re: Two Fold C9++: (15/15) Day 1 wears on! - 0 replacements or more needed
« Reply #236 on: August 24, 2015, 06:18:04 pm »

Too angry and frustrated with myself atm to post a votecount right now, but...

Day ends in ~5 hours
1/2 extends used.
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Persus13

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Re: Two Fold C9++: (15/15) Day 1 begins!
« Reply #237 on: August 24, 2015, 08:27:27 pm »

fillipk:
There a reason why you are unable to quote posts?
Ah you see I've never done Bay12 Madia before so I didn't know however I'm not new to the concept of mafia, or even forum mafia, I've played a couple hidden roles games and a little Town of Salem and I was part of one Mafia game on a different forum.
Bay12 Mafia tends to be a little... different, but it mainly depends on whose playing.

Well I guess it is just random voting personally I don't like it because there is more of a chance to get town then mafia
Generally the idea of random voting is to elicit a reaction from the person receiving the vote which may give a clue to their alignment.

Roo what side are you on anyway?
His own probably, roo behaving erratically is fairly normal for him.

Looking back now I realized I messed up but that's the same reason why I'm town, as someone pointed out scum tend to stay quiet and avoid drawing attention to themselves for the exact reason of me, they get noticed and could be lynched which is dangerous to them since there are like 2 on each team.
but if you were scum and someone pointed this out to you, wouldn't you try to be more active and draw more attention to you?

I might overanalyze, I remember Fallacy or kulaks saying claiming town doesn't work and shows that you are scum since that's what they do.  Also the fact that you aren't using lots of words says you don't want to give stuff away which is also suspicious.  So come up with an actual defense please.
Scum will claim town, but why would town not claim town as well. Scum want to be seen as town, so you will see scum doing things that townspeople will do.

DoctorMcTaalik:
Hello Everyone, there's a lot of faces I don't know here. What's your experience with Mafia prior to this game, and do you have any experience with Bay12 mafia?

I've played Mafia IRL a couple times. My only prior game on Bay12 was Beginner's Mafia LV, in which I replaced a rather inactive player near the end of the game. Oh, and I recently tried an online flash version (Town of Salem, I think), but didn't particularly enjoy it.
Good job in that game, btw, while you posted once, it was a well done one. Town of Salem tends to be a bit weird, so I'm not surprised. I hope you stick around.

roo:
Also, before someone calls me out on it, yes, I randomized that list twice. Fillipk popped up first the first time, and I don't see the point of doubling up on randvotes.

For some reason I dislike this immensely. Feels like a bit of a cop out. Why did you feel the need to roll on who to vote.
Why did you vote fillipk then?

4maskwolf:
4maskwolf: If someone starts behaving like NQT in the last BYOR and votes you, what are you going to do?
I don't answer questions involving active games.
This isn't from BYOP, its from the BYOR run by MIA wuba. That game is definitely over. I was referring to NQT's "Secret doctrine" stuff.

Fallacy of Urist
There are two scum teams- mafia, and werewolves. For all I know you're a mafia goon who attacked roo because you thought he was an opposing werewolf. Or the other way around. This, you see, is why this sort of game is not entirely recommended for new players.

Everyone: Can I get some more activity, sil vous plait?
Generally in two scumteam games scum tend to not care who gets lynched as long as it isn't one of their own and go after the other scumteam at night. At least I think so, don't quote me on this (well you can, but not authoritatively).

...
I hate the first day and want to lynch someone and get over it.
I'm going to let anyone who wants to read that be the judge of how scummy(absurd) that is. Have you heard of the concept of a "Hammer" in mafia, fillipk?
Sure, because it isn't scummy
Wanting day 1 to be over is not scummy, if anything its a town tell. Day 1 is when we have the least information. Its often only after Day 1 has passed behind us that we are put on a path to root out the scum.

Why aren't you scum?

Because I'm town...
This. Why aren't you scum? Because you're town? I don't see that as anything close to a proper answer.
Shadow didn't give any further context for this question, why should roo give more context for his answer?

Comrade Shamrock:
What are your feelings on the situation?
At this point in reading through the game, I feel that moonlightshadow is being lynched more for not having a handle on the game yet more than anything else. So I'm inclined to think he's town. FofU is reasonable, people need to post more, and if I had voted at this point in time it would be fillipk.

Kilakan
I'd like to say that town don't attempt to save their own lives, instead you should be attempting to hunt down the true scum.  That is if you are town anyhow, scum only attempt to save their own lives instead of proactive scum hunting since well... there's no scum to hunt. 
But there is fake scum for them to hunt.
Kilakan: I'm not entirely sure that's a fair assessment. The reason roo voted The Moonlit Shadow was to try to tie up the votecount and not be lynched because they were going to die in a few hours before FallacyofUrist suggested extending the day. That could be a scum move or more simply an "I don't want to die" move. I'm not really disagreeing with you, but using self-preservation as a scumtell strikes me as somewhat silly.
Maybe it's changed since I last played, but 'I don't want to die' used to be a pretty big scumtell, since town didn't have that major of a reason to fear death.  It was more important to scum hunt with whatever time you have, instead of cowering and trying to tie votes in fear of the noose.

The reason being here;Town can die at night to mafia, SK, ect.
-Mafia can only die during the day to lynchs.

Town only have the day to make the most of their time, and may very well be cut apart during the night.  So fearing a mis-guided lynch is less important than say, finding the proper target with the time you have.  Tieing the vote so you can go on to hide/dodge the noose instead of active-hunting is a pretty large scumtell.  Especially in a game with no 'majority insta-lynch' so you really have no reason to try and 'tie' a vote.
Town have a perfectly legitimate reason to fear death, it means that they're one step closer to losing. I'll agree with you that tying the lynch should be avoided, but do you think roo was aware he was tying the vote?

The Moonlight Shadow:
I just realized something...

Flailing = accusations = more posts = more mistakes = more evidence = better scum finding.
Of course, you need people like kilakan and FallacyofUrist to get from more posts to the end. But it all starts with flailing!
One problem is more posts doesn't mean more content. I've seen posts with more content in them than fillipk's entire list of posts in this game, on Day 1, no less.

Dampe
I vote for not Dampe.
I want to live, dammit. ;_;
I'm not a mafioso. This, I promise on my gentleman's honor.
You have 3 hours to vote the scum. Will you do so?
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Two Fold C9++: (15/15) Day 1 begins!
« Reply #238 on: August 24, 2015, 08:35:36 pm »

Shadow didn't give any further context for this question, why should roo give more context for his answer?
... because he ought to be better than that. Questions can be simple. Answers can also be simple, but for a question like "why are you not scum" a more elaborate answer is better.

Persus13: defending roo, are you? Hm hm hm. Part of me thinks you're some sort of scum pulling your scum buddy away from a lynch. Of course, it's too early to tell, but that's what I see.

Wanting day 1 to be over is not scummy, if anything its a town tell. Day 1 is when we have the least information. Its often only after Day 1 has passed behind us that we are put on a path to root out the scum.

Note "lynch someone and get over it". Wanting the day to be over- to hurry it, if you will, is quite scummy. We may have the least information Day 1, but there's no cause to waste it.

Persus13: thank you for mega post. Now here's a question: Wilt thou please target a player who is actually acting scummy instead of just lurking? We don't get much info from a lurker lynch. In fact, lurker lynches are typically regarded as "safer" by scum. Targeting someone who doesn't much... flow, matter, exist, post often... it's a policy lynch instead of a good one.
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fillipk

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Re: Two Fold C9++: (15/15) Day 1 begins!
« Reply #239 on: August 24, 2015, 09:21:22 pm »

fillipk:
There a reason why you are unable to quote posts?
Ah you see I've never done Bay12 Madia before so I didn't know however I'm not new to the concept of mafia, or even forum mafia, I've played a couple hidden roles games and a little Town of Salem and I was part of one Mafia game on a different forum.
Bay12 Mafia tends to be a little... different, but it mainly depends on whose playing.

Well I guess it is just random voting personally I don't like it because there is more of a chance to get town then mafia
Generally the idea of random voting is to elicit a reaction from the person receiving the vote which may give a clue to their alignment.

Roo what side are you on anyway?
His own probably, roo behaving erratically is fairly normal for him.

Looking back now I realized I messed up but that's the same reason why I'm town, as someone pointed out scum tend to stay quiet and avoid drawing attention to themselves for the exact reason of me, they get noticed and could be lynched which is dangerous to them since there are like 2 on each team.
but if you were scum and someone pointed this out to you, wouldn't you try to be more active and draw more attention to you?

I might overanalyze, I remember Fallacy or kulaks saying claiming town doesn't work and shows that you are scum since that's what they do.  Also the fact that you aren't using lots of words says you don't want to give stuff away which is also suspicious.  So come up with an actual defense please.
Scum will claim town, but why would town not claim town as well. Scum want to be seen as town, so you will see scum doing things that townspeople will do.
Sorry I guess its mostly laziness and trying to quote huge quotes from my phone, I will do this whenever I can.

@what you said: Yes and if they become more active there is more stuff to analyze and more opportunity for mistakes, its an equal trade off.

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