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Author Topic: Showing Mercy  (Read 8674 times)

WingSoap

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Showing Mercy
« on: July 21, 2015, 02:01:15 pm »

Ever since i started playing this game I would slay anyone who opposed me or die trying. I never showed mercy on anyone, until recently.

I've been thinking. If you cripple a person and then kill them, their gone, their just another part of your huge kill-list. But if you permanently scar them, then you have a story. You have a person, that you can later meet again someday, maybe by a different adventurer.

Scaring people and forcing them to yield (or yielding yourself) just seems more satisfying from that perspective.
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escondida

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Re: Showing Mercy
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2015, 08:34:36 pm »

I'm not really sure that maiming someone and forcing them to live with a crippling disability for your amusement can really be considered "merciful." Just sayin'.
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ZM5

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Re: Showing Mercy
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2015, 04:54:15 am »

Honestly that'd probably be even more cruel than outright killing them.

vjmdhzgr

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Re: Showing Mercy
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2015, 06:08:36 am »

I'm not really sure that maiming someone and forcing them to live with a crippling disability for your amusement can really be considered "merciful." Just sayin'.
Dwarven mercy.
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Robsoie

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Re: Showing Mercy
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2015, 07:42:21 am »

The main problem of the current version is that whatever you do in adventure mode, the consequence are :
- it was inevitable
- it is terrifying
- i hate you
- you're a great hero
npc *spits* on adventurer

:/

And nothing more, in the current version while the "world activation" was supposed to make the world more alive, unfortunately the adventurer interactions with the npc were reduced to "nothing matters", "nothing has interesting consequences" , "nothing/none care about anything".

I really hope Toady will give a closer look to that, it was far from perfect of course in past version, but in df2014 it's much much worse, it makes those npc even more artificial and so even less interesting than they were in the past.
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draeath

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Re: Showing Mercy
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2015, 05:29:02 pm »

The main problem of the current version is that whatever you do in adventure mode, the consequence are :
- it was inevitable
- it is terrifying
- i hate you
- you're a great hero
npc *spits* on adventurer

:/

And nothing more, in the current version while the "world activation" was supposed to make the world more alive, unfortunately the adventurer interactions with the npc were reduced to "nothing matters", "nothing has interesting consequences" , "nothing/none care about anything".

I really hope Toady will give a closer look to that, it was far from perfect of course in past version, but in df2014 it's much much worse, it makes those npc even more artificial and so even less interesting than they were in the past.

Might happen (hopefully!) when his current obsession with all things Bard is satiated.
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vjmdhzgr

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Re: Showing Mercy
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2015, 12:08:15 pm »

The main problem of the current version is that whatever you do in adventure mode, the consequence are :
- it was inevitable
- it is terrifying
- i hate you
- you're a great hero
npc *spits* on adventurer

:/

And nothing more, in the current version while the "world activation" was supposed to make the world more alive, unfortunately the adventurer interactions with the npc were reduced to "nothing matters", "nothing has interesting consequences" , "nothing/none care about anything".

I really hope Toady will give a closer look to that, it was far from perfect of course in past version, but in df2014 it's much much worse, it makes those npc even more artificial and so even less interesting than they were in the past.

Might happen (hopefully!) when his current obsession with all things Bard is satiated.
I don't get why you have so much of a problem with the tavern arc. He's not just adding bards, he's also adding taverns, fortress visitors, the possibility of multi racial fortresses, alcohol effects, minor syndrome improvements, art forms, books and scrolls made by people other than necromancers, generated musical instruments, philosophers, basic fortress mode temples, a complete change of the break system to use the temples and taverns, the potential for a civilization's values to change over time, the ability to have entities which can have randomized ethics and values, libraries, researching, and knowledge gained from research. I'm pretty sure there's a few other things I wasn't able to remember, and a lot of those would need an explanation of how significant they are for the future like how art forms and how they're learned can later be applied to things like fighting styles later on, but it would take quite a while to explain all of them.
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escondida

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Re: Showing Mercy
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2015, 07:22:11 am »

Besides the other cool features, it seems like the current version *is* probably going to address that. After all, many of the poetic forms are primitive historiography--so it's likely that if you recount your adventures to somebody with any talent, your deeds will be told in song and story and your name be legend, etc., etc.
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Robsoie

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Re: Showing Mercy
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2015, 07:50:58 am »

I really hope so, because thing like that

Urist McHero : hear that tale of bravery, of honor and compassion, hear about how the world changed with the action of a single dwarf, hear how the demonic beasts that were preying on our families are now only memories, hear about how a hero annihilated the bandit overlords that were making your lives a hell, hear the story of the legendary warrior that fought for all of us !

Urist McNPC1 : it was inevitable.
Urist McNPC2 : it was inevitable.
Urist McNPC3 : it is terrifying.
Urist McNPC4 : is that a weapon ?
Urist McNPC5 : it was inevitable.
Urist McNPC6 : murderer ! *spit on you*
 
Were really killing the adventure fun very fast.
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WingSoap

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Re: Showing Mercy
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2015, 02:27:09 am »

Will the citizens hate you if you kill criminals in the next version?
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Rumrusher

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Re: Showing Mercy
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2015, 07:32:19 am »

I really hope so, because thing like that

Urist McHero : hear that tale of bravery, of honor and compassion, hear about how the world changed with the action of a single dwarf, hear how the demonic beasts that were preying on our families are now only memories, hear about how a hero annihilated the bandit overlords that were making your lives a hell, hear the story of the legendary warrior that fought for all of us !

Urist McNPC1 : it was inevitable.
Urist McNPC2 : it was inevitable.
Urist McNPC3 : it is terrifying.
Urist McNPC4 : is that a weapon ?
Urist McNPC5 : it was inevitable.
Urist McNPC6 : murderer ! *spit on you*
 
Were really killing the adventure fun very fast.

chances are it's not going to be fixed outside of toady changing "It was inevitable" to something that written pleasant to the players who seek fame and glory but still means the same "we don't have any historical data to emote over this news."
like first thing is they(Civ Filler Npc person) don't have families and the creation of the site itself to fill out numbers. one could say their Clones.
the bandit lords don't seem to murder folks just steal cash from them, and also these people are kinda spawn out of the ether so they don't have any unit memory of any attack that was push up to personal joy in that characters death.
then there's the factions which I guess are tied to crimes which I guess don't have a global crime list of evil mofos that everyone should remember outside of RAW made ones where it's in the peasant nature to be afraid due to "being a dangerous beast" which if you calm one down as a say minotaur the game autochecks to see hmm peasant seeing a minotaur who's an dangerous beast, run Panic.

Will the citizens hate you if you kill criminals in the next version?
well that depend on there's a new code that makes bragging be "you should CARE about my FEATS OF GOOD PEASANT" though I think toadyone was pushing for more the game reacting to weird adventure mode Grinding and actions like jokingly giving you a chicken to wrestle if you did that to become legendary in wrestling or something.


on the subject of mercy yeah I tend to lightly beat up guys or try to talk them down. I don't really see the need to kill everything and some playthroughs I'm pacifist. that said breaking the legs of a person then leaving them often just means they get to regenerate enough to become a prone badass that will murder anyone that attacks them and their best bet to fixing their limbs is getting nibbled on from a were_person or spouced by a night troll.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 07:36:25 am by Rumrusher »
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Robsoie

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Re: Showing Mercy
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2015, 07:57:38 am »

chances are it's not going to be fixed outside of toady changing "It was inevitable" to something that written pleasant to the players who seek fame and glory but still means the same "we don't have any historical data to emote over this news."

This would be the wrong way to fix it, because replacing that message by another will lead into the same problem : same npc answer to everything that are reported to them.

Considering you can report limited amount of events, while of course it can take time, it would be a lot better to get
- a reply appropriate for report of *dead npc*
- a reply appropriate for report of *dead bandit*
- a reply appropriate for report of *dead bandit overlord*
- a reply appropriate for report of *dead animal*
- a reply appropriate for report of *dead night creature*
- a reply appropriate for report of *dead monster*
- a reply appropriate for report of *dead megabeast*
- a reply appropriate for report of *dead fogotten beast*

etc...
With the reply being on a negative / neutral / positive tone depending on the npc affiliation in regard to the dead and on the npc level of stress/emotion.

It wouldn't be perfect but at least the player would feel the world less dead if people acknowledged a report by something else than the same exact reply or variation of that reply like in df2014 and had instead something to say that is appropriate to the report, whatever it is in negative/neutral/positive way.
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Rumrusher

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Re: Showing Mercy
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2015, 09:39:03 am »

chances are it's not going to be fixed outside of toady changing "It was inevitable" to something that written pleasant to the players who seek fame and glory but still means the same "we don't have any historical data to emote over this news."

This would be the wrong way to fix it, because replacing that message by another will lead into the same problem : same npc answer to everything that are reported to them.

Considering you can report limited amount of events, while of course it can take time, it would be a lot better to get
- a reply appropriate for report of *dead npc*
- a reply appropriate for report of *dead bandit*
- a reply appropriate for report of *dead bandit overlord*
- a reply appropriate for report of *dead animal*
- a reply appropriate for report of *dead night creature*
- a reply appropriate for report of *dead monster*
- a reply appropriate for report of *dead megabeast*
- a reply appropriate for report of *dead fogotten beast*

etc...
With the reply being on a negative / neutral / positive tone depending on the npc affiliation in regard to the dead and on the npc level of stress/emotion.

It wouldn't be perfect but at least the player would feel the world less dead if people acknowledged a report by something else than the same exact reply or variation of that reply like in df2014 and had instead something to say that is appropriate to the report, whatever it is in negative/neutral/positive way.
uhh the thing about that is , that there are replies to reports of dead beasts, just that the check for them to care about it is off since their blank slates who unit wise haven't seen or acted to one. like what separates those replies to rare moment when a guy reacts to your boasts of murderhoboism in 40.24? like they might say one of those appropriate lines for the report and then you end up thinking oh did I get enough fame to recruit someone now or was that a can comment said to avoid repeating a line over and over again?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 09:48:47 am by Rumrusher »
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Dampe

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Re: Showing Mercy
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2015, 12:40:34 pm »

Mercy seems to be a foreign concept in my DF games...
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TheHossofMoss

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Re: Showing Mercy
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2015, 04:22:43 pm »

I've broken the hands of a bandit, and yanked his weapons out of his hand, and I told him to yield. He did. However, when I showed up again at the same site, he tried to attack me again.

What was funny, was that he was having a friendly conversation with me while trying to punch me. I again, broke his hands, and as he lay on the ground in pain, I just kept talking with him.

It was a good relationship.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 04:53:59 pm by TheHossofMoss »
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